[Basic] VeggieTales Mafia- Game over, Scum Win!

[Niniel]

Uhm... yes, please. You link me to Hallia in your post and I wonder why? Would you not have been suspicious of me any more if Hallia was mafia?

[Andrej]

The only linking I have done with you two is to say that you both stuck out the most to me and had done things to set yourselves up as potential lynch candidates, which was evident by the fact you both had the two competing trains. As I previously said, your own actions have made me suspicious of you; that had nothing to do with Hallia and her actions. Either way, Hallia's flip could be used against you so frankly I don't feel the need to go that in depth with them.

[John E. Kelley]

Uhm... yes, please. You link me to Hallia in your post and I wonder why? Would you not have been suspicious of me any more if Hallia was mafia?

 

 

The only linking I have done with you two is to say that you both stuck out the most to me and had done things to set yourselves up as potential lynch candidates, which was evident by the fact you both had the two competing trains. As I previously said, your own actions have made me suspicious of you; that had nothing to do with Hallia and her actions. Either way, Hallia's flip could be used against you so frankly I don't feel the need to go that in depth with them.

 

You're being awfully evasive AJ. Even if you don't feel the need to enlighten Tina, questions directed at you help all of us. Your reluctance to share is pingworthy.

[Andrej]

It's not evasiveness or reluctance Ishy.

 

What I was saying was that going in depth into hypothetical situations usually just muddies things further than they already are. For example, I could say that Tina intentionally didn't vote Hallia because she knew that she would flip town and wanted to avoid being a part of that train. Then she would likely counter saying that she didn't find Hallia scummy and therefore placed her vote elsewhere. Get what I'm saying?

[John E. Kelley]

It's not evasiveness or reluctance Ishy.

 

What I was saying was that going in depth into hypothetical situations usually just muddies things further than they already are. For example, I could say that Tina intentionally didn't vote Hallia because she knew that she would flip town and wanted to avoid being a part of that train. Then she would likely counter saying that she didn't find Hallia scummy and therefore placed her vote elsewhere. Get what I'm saying?

 

So why not just say that? Getting ideas out there to sift through is pro-Town, regardless of the validity or likelihood of it actually occuring.

 

For instance, I find that scenario compelling, and will look at it come Day.

[Kaylee]

All night actions have been received. Please stand by for scene...

[Kaylee]

The villians of the stories thought they should have their fun. They gathered together to discuss their plan for the following day. Who should they mess with? Who bugged them the most? They heard a creak of a door. They rushed to grab the spy. "You think you're going to rat us out do you?" they asked the intruder.

"The veggies have a right to know what's going on and that you can't be trusted!" he shouted at them.

"We'll see about that round one..." With those words they tied him up, put a gag in his mouth, and threw him off the sink. "Now we're unstoppable!" They laughed as they turned to rejoin the others. After all, it wouldn't look right if they came walking in when the others woke would it?

 

Basel - Bob the Tomato Town Cop has been NK'd

 

 

It's now D2, Deadline will be Sunday 9:30pm AZ time Countdown timer: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130317T2130&p0=197&msg=Veggies+D2

[Basel Gill]

Bah. Go town.

[John E. Kelley]

Breaking this up so it isn't quite so big.

 

At this stage of the game, most people tend to get a town read from those who are trying to kick-start the game from the joke vote/spam stage into serious play.  And other than that, there's generally not a lot of opinions to be had. 

 

So, let's do something interesting.

 

Unvote, vote Tina.

 

So here we have Tress casting the first "real" third vote on someone, I'm discounting Tina's prior two for the moment. She even admits herself that Tina's third votes were an attempt to jump start the game and not to be taken seriously. Yet makes no such distinction for her own. Her only justification is to "do something interesting."

 

I could go back to voting you.  You probably deserve it. 

 

Here she's speaking to me. This seems to say to me that her previous vote on Tina has no basis and she's still stuck in the willy-nilly voting phase. Yet, this completely contradicts the tone of her post where she voted for Tina. Could be just for the lulz, but I'll come back to this.

 

I already did vote you.  And was tempted to leave my vote on you, but decided the game needed to get moving.

 

I actually decided to unvote you and vote Tina well before she switched her vote to you.

 

Don't worry.  I'll come back to you.

 

Again, hints that she has a reason for voting Tina, yet doesn't share what it might be. Threatens me with returning to placing her vote on me. And further says that she was tempted to leave her vote on me, but doesn't say why. So far, I have yet to see a valid reason for any of the votes she's placed to this point.

 

Interesting that Tress tie herself to Ishy that way. First the friendly "joke vote" and then she leaves his train that was the largest at the moment and move her vote to me (without a real reason) and make my train the largest. 

 

Here Tina notices the points I have just raised, yet for some reason sees a need to try and tie Tress and I together. As I stated yesterday, tying players together on day one without the benefit of any coroner reports is flat out scummy. Also, calls out Tress for forming the largest train, yet did the exact same thing herself. Twice.

 

Or nothing?

Your attempts to create some connection between Tress and me, coupled with back to back third votes? Yeah, doesn't look bad at all.

 

I point this out to her, which leads to this interesting retort:

 

 

At this stage of the game, most people tend to get a town read from those who are trying to kick-start the game from the joke vote/spam stage into serious play.  And other than that, there's generally not a lot of opinions to be had. 

 

So, let's do something interesting.

 

Unvote, vote Tina.

 

Ishy, here is Tress´ reason to vote me. I try to kick-start the game and thus people will get a town read on me. That isn´t really a reason to vote me. What I guess is that Tress thinks I´m scum hiding behind a usual town play. 

 

I´m actually using the same logic against her. Her joke vote could mean nothing, or it could be a way to tie herself to you. When she unvotes you and vote me and thereby switch the vote majority from you to me, then she is definitely linking herself to you. See, all of this is about Tress, not about you, but it´s interesting that you felt the need to defend her play. 

 

Here, she flips her reasons for casting that all-telling third vote. Is it to kickstart the game? Or is it to get players to form a Town read on you? Because that was never brought into consideration until then. And as far as me defending her, do you have any posts to point to as proof? Because that's just not true. Anyone looking back at mine and Tress's play yesterday can see that that simply isn't the case.

 

More to follow.

[John E. Kelley]

Well, I'm leery of Tina still, and I'm not buying the lynch on Cloud. I'm in agreement with Mish and you that someone is trying to build up a lynch on Cloud, but I don't think it's Hally. I'm reading her as more of a misguided townie, keeping in mind that she is inexperienced. For now, I'm more comfortable keeping my vote on Tina.

 

Based on Basel's coroner report, we now have the read of what is a vetted Townie to look at. The fact that he read Tina as scummy is telling.

 

See now we're getting some interesting action. 

 

 

 

Unvote. Vote Tina.  I'm finding this to be weak. Tress always joke votes Ishy to start off, so this is a null tell. For you to use it in your case is reaching hard, and I don't see why you're calling attention to it.

 

Interesting that Tress tie herself to Ishy that way. First the friendly "joke vote" and then she leaves his train that was the largest at the moment and move her vote to me (without a real reason) and make my train the largest. 

 

This reasoning pinged as an excuse for the 4th vote on Tina's train.  For all anyone knows, Tina's observation was valid.  Of course, as Ishy has already pointed out, we always joke vote one another, and my reason for leaving Ishy's train was that I'd already decided to move my vote to Tina to help continue stirring things up, as there wasn't a lot to comment on.

 

I full expected some suspicion from that move.  Heck, I expected a vote or two for it.  Basel defending me as such, even mildly, draws an FOS.

 

Again, Tress tries to justify her Tina vote, while not actually justifying it. She uses double-speak to level suspicion at someone that is actually voting for the same player she is. Someone that actually justified his vote. The fact that it was Basel makes this that much more damning.

 

Looking back a little in light of what Tress said, something sort of stuck out to me about Basel as well.

 

I just want to shake this game. Unvote.  Vote Ishy. Why? Well, why not. He hasn´t done anything but spammed so far and he already have two votes.

 

OMG! I´m the first one who have put the third vote twice now. :D

 

>

 

Unvote. Vote Tina.  I'm finding this to be weak. Tress always joke votes Ishy to start off, so this is a null tell. For you to use it in your case is reaching hard, and I don't see why you're calling attention to it.

 

Interesting that Tress tie herself to Ishy that way. First the friendly "joke vote" and then she leaves his train that was the largest at the moment and move her vote to me (without a real reason) and make my train the largest. 

 

Which case were you talking about? Her vote was already on Ishy at that point.

 

Tress your comment about how Tina's observation could be valid is very devious. You say you voted Tina for basically the same reason she voted Ishy.

 

Other than that, Hallia is definitely not looking too good right now. Serious back peddling when pressure was applied and then returning to the general spam nature. Kira's comment about peanut butter did make me laugh though. (Reminded me of those Dave Caruso memes)

 

Peace your wording throws me off. Were you saying that Kira is triggering your scum radar as well or that she is triggering a mafia player's radar?

 

Anyway, I'm bloody tired and right now my brain doesn't want to cooperate so formulating thoughts isn't coming easily so I hope this makes sense. I'm off to bed... hopefully some of those that live overseas will have thoughts posted so I can catch up at work tomorrow (given that it doesn't get too crazy). For now I'll keep my vote as we've got another 2 days before DL.

 

I'm trying to decide if this was an attempt by AJ to level an FoS at Basel or to stall Tina's train. Or both. Some clarification from AJ would be nice.

 

Hallia is acting weird. First defend her vote then dropping it when getting pressured. Then starts to joke. Hm...

 

Tress comment to Basel is very interesting. Her vote on me was to stirr things up apparently. She fos Basel for his vote on me. But still she keeps her vote on me. I have a feeling Tress is scum. Unvote. Vote Tress.

 

Didn't want to be seen on the most likely lynch yesterday did you Tina? By this point, Hallia's death was a foregone conclusion. I smell bussing here.

 

 

Basel - That I didn't understand why you brought it up as your reason to vote her. Tina made that comment after having already voted Ishy and then in turn having Tress vote her as well. It would be different in my mind if she had used that reasoning to vote Tress, which she kind of just did, but her vote was on Ishy.

 

If Tina was trying to link Tress and Ishy (and I think that she was), then would it really matter if she were voting Ishy or voting Tress when she said that? Either way, she was using the joke vote by Tress to justify her vote.

 

^^^This. Basel even noticed Tina's attempt to link Tress and I together and pointed out how scummy it was. And also noted how weak the reason for her vote was.

 

 

I agree with ya Kira, it does look pretty suspicious.  I just went with my gut.  I'm comfortable saying I'm still a bit of a newbie, but it's still no excuse.  I am town.  I also think it'd be really easy for mafia to take advantage of my slip and easily vote for me.

The fact that there hasn't been a big rush to pile on to you indicates to me that scum wants no part of your train. Opportunistic scum will look for any excuse to hide themselves within what is, a pretty easy to justify train. So why aren't the mafia jumping onboard? Two reasons that I can see, one, you're scum yourself and they hope to save you somehow. Two, they're already onboard what is another easy to justify train, Tina's. So the question I raise is which of the two seems more likely to in this particular scenario? I have to conclude that it's the former, and I'll be honest, it's totally for meta reasons. The so-called scummy play from Tina is the exact same play seen from her time and again, it's what she does and therefore a null-tell for me. You, however, have never looked scummy in a game to me before, so again, I ask myself why so different this time? I can only conclude that you're mafia and your teammates are hiding in Tina's train. Should anyone decide to follow me, I'll be looking closely at who leaves Tina's train for any obvious bussing tells.

 

As to the bolded, I'm going to look back right now and see who is guilty of this. I meant to include it in my WoT but it didn't make it in.

 

 

 

 

I agree with ya Kira, it does look pretty suspicious. I just went with my gut. I'm comfortable saying I'm still a bit of a newbie, but it's still no excuse. I am town. I also think it'd be really easy for mafia to take advantage of my slip and easily vote for me.

The fact that there hasn't been a big rush to pile on to you indicates to me that scum wants no part of your train. Opportunistic scum will look for any excuse to hide themselves within what is, a pretty easy to justify train. So why aren't the mafia jumping onboard? Two reasons that I can see, one, you're scum yourself and they hope to save you somehow. Two, they're already onboard what is another easy to justify train, Tina's. So the question I raise is which of the two seems more likely to in this particular scenario? I have to conclude that it's the former, and I'll be honest, it's totally for meta reasons. The so-called scummy play from Tina is the exact same play seen from her time and again, it's what she does and therefore a null-tell for me. You, however, have never looked scummy in a game to me before, so again, I ask myself why so different this time? I can only conclude that you're mafia and your teammates are hiding in Tina's train. Should anyone decide to follow me, I'll be looking closely at who leaves Tina's train for any obvious bussing tells.

So you will take an extra look at Tress now?

 

Andrej's post is a little weird. He seems to be more suspicious of me than Hallia but still votes Hallia.

 

Something is wrong with DM. I can't post on my computer but apparently I can post on my phone.

 

After my analysis, I'm smelling a distancing gambit between Tress and Tina. Their attempts to make each other look so scummy on a Day One, when no one knows who is who, looks planned to me. I could also notice a bit of AJ thrown in there as well. I'd be okay voting for any of those three, but Tina and Tress especially.

[John E. Kelley]

Bah. Go town.

 

You shall be avenged brother.

[John E. Kelley]

 

Official Vote Count

 

Tress (1/7): Ishy

Ishy (1/7): Tina

Cloud (1/7): Mish

Darth (1/7): TG

Tina (5/7): AJ, Peace, Tress, Basel, Cloud

TG (1/7): Darthe

 

Tina is at L-2

 

Not Voting (2/12): Kira, Hally

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Wednesday 9:30pm AZ time. (Countdown timer will be added tonight when I put the baby to bed.)

Ishy here's the last one posted before you unvoted and Hally voted for Cloud. Interesting that you unvoted Tress while mentioning that Tina's train stunk.

 

I agree somewhat with what Hally is saying, although I don't have much of a read on Cloud as of yet. It's an easy tactic for the mafia members to add their votes late on a train while generally just saying they agree with other people's thoughts. I think this team would be smart enough not to all be on the same bandwagon though, given the experience of most of the players.

 

I don't really like Tina's play, or that she's gone silent recently but just in case I'll unvote and look over some other things again later tonight once I get settled in.

 

 

Oh good grief, formatting FAIL.  It was fine in the preview. 

 

Will try to fix all that, but just in case, that's an unvote, vote Hallia from me.

 

More proof. Tina gets to L-2, and look at that.

[Andrej]

 

It's not evasiveness or reluctance Ishy.

 

What I was saying was that going in depth into hypothetical situations usually just muddies things further than they already are. For example, I could say that Tina intentionally didn't vote Hallia because she knew that she would flip town and wanted to avoid being a part of that train. Then she would likely counter saying that she didn't find Hallia scummy and therefore placed her vote elsewhere. Get what I'm saying?

 

So why not just say that? Getting ideas out there to sift through is pro-Town, regardless of the validity or likelihood of it actually occuring.

 

For instance, I find that scenario compelling, and will look at it come Day.

Why not just say which part? I get what you're saying about putting your ideas out there and when I have them I try to. In this instance, I didn't think getting into further debate with her about it was going to get anywhere and assumed the other players would be able to make the connection on their own considering that she was one of the top lynch candidates for the day and my previous comments about taking all lynches and final votes into consideration.

[Andrej]

As to the Basel comments:

 

 

Looking back a little in light of what Tress said, something sort of stuck out to me about Basel as well.
 

I just want to shake this game. Unvote.  Vote Ishy. Why? Well, why not. He hasn´t done anything but spammed so far and he already have two votes.
 
OMG! I´m the first one who have put the third vote twice now. :D

 

Unvote. Vote Tina.  I'm finding this to be weak. Tress always joke votes Ishy to start off, so this is a null tell. For you to use it in your case is reaching hard, and I don't see why you're calling attention to it.
 

Interesting that Tress tie herself to Ishy that way. First the friendly "joke vote" and then she leaves his train that was the largest at the moment and move her vote to me (without a real reason) and make my train the largest.

 
Which case were you talking about? Her vote was already on Ishy at that point.

 

Your point here being what, exactly? Tina used Tress's vote on Ishy to link them as if there was some deeper meaning to a joke vote that happens in every single game they are in together. When she saw something worth making a serious vote, she took off the joke vote. How is that suspicious? Don't we all sooner or later place a serious vote?

 

 

Basel - That I didn't understand why you brought it up as your reason to vote her. Tina made that comment after having already voted Ishy and then in turn having Tress vote her as well. It would be different in my mind if she had used that reasoning to vote Tress, which she kind of just did, but her vote was on Ishy.

 

I had already previously stated that I was going to unvote and look back at others who had thrown their votes to Tina. You yourself said you didn't like the looks of her train was beginning to stack up. You asked me directly why I seemed so hard to defend Tina and I explained as much. With Basel, I was mostly keeping in mind what Tress had said about him and looked back at his reasoning to vote Tina. To me, it didn't really add up because Tina had voted you and was making speculations about Tress's switch. Take note that I also commented when I had posted my original thoughts how I thought it was very dark of Tress to even remotely hint that Tina could be right.

[Darthe]

Fascinating.  

 

Vote Tina

[John E. Kelley]

Fascinating.  

 

Vote Tina

 

Once again, your eloquence moves and astounds me.

[Songstress]

Let me make this abundantly clear.

 

The one and only reason that I voted Tina on D1 was this:  we had reached a point in the game where we were trying to move from joke voting into serious game play, but people were pretty much stalled out with the only activity of note being Tina's 3rd vote on herself.  And as I said, people who try to get the game started into serious mode generally give off a town vibe.  There wasn't much of any suspicious nature to discuss, so I had decided to move my vote to Tina, putting her at L-3, and see what reactions followed.

 

Now, before I actually had a chance to do this, Tina decided to switch her vote to Ishy, but I figured leaving my joke vote in place was pointless when my goal was to help stir something up to discuss, so I switched anyway. 

 

My best two suspects at the end of D1 both flipped town, so apparently it's back to the drawing board.

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Tina (1/6): Darthe

 

Not Voting (9/10): Peace, Tina, Kira, AJ, Tress, Ishy, Cloud, TG, Mish

With 12 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

 

 

 

Deadline will be Sunday 9:30pm AZ time Countdown timer: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130317T2130&p0=197&msg=Veggies+D2

[peacesells]

wow...Ishy has done a serious meta change. 

 

Very intoxicated....so I'll read all those WOTs at another time.

[Darthe]

 

 

Fascinating.

 

Vote Tina

Once again, your eloquence moves and astounds me.

I could show you more but I don't think you could handle it. Btw do you want to co-mod real drunk mafia sometime? 12 players, basic game, rules require a person to take a shot before each post?

 

I think it would be awesome here or on JN

[Niniel]

Vote Tress again. I will see what I can find when I re-read. 

[John E. Kelley]

The inactivity in this game saddens me.

[Tyler Glembo]

@Ishy - After your extensive casing why are you not voting?  You are putting the case out there for either Tress or Tina and then....what?  Waiting to see where you get a bite?  Pingworthy.  

[Tyler Glembo]

Ishy, Kira, Tress, Darthe, AJ, Peace

 

These were the people who voted for the Hally lynch.  There is very likely at least one or two scum on the train, so here are my thoughts

 

Ishy - Slight ping on casing but not voting.  Otherwise is scumhunting and the only one who seems to be casing and keeping the game active. null

Kira - A few pokes of other players but not much else.  Was even with questioning both me and Darthe.  Kira, what do you think of the current case on Tress/Tina? town lean

Tress - Voted Tina again today.  Seems a bit less like distancing as compared to actual play, but still is suspect because she may just be responding to Ishy's case.  Would have been more believable had it come before Ishy's casing, not after, scum lean

Darthe - Skating by, sheeping Ishy, scum lean

AJ - Seems active scumhunting, asking questions, trying to get others involved, town lean

Peace - put Hally at L-1, currently drunk and will be for a while more, null

 

My top scum read is still Darthe for his play.  vote Darthe

 

As for who could possibly be Darthe's teammate I'm not sure.  Darthe has been under the radar enough that he has had little interaction with most players.  Kira is the one exception and I find her town.  

[michellem]

I have lost the reply boxes AGAIN so im just posting this quckly from my husbands ipad. Gotta try to figure out how to do the votibg cofes....