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September MD--Race/Gender Preferences at Universities


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#1 Aiel Heart

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

Are there race and gender preferances in your countries? If not, do you think there should be?

What are the advantages and disadvantages to there being preferences?

[Insert all other questions that people come up with which pertain to this topic here]




Heart's Quick Thoughts Corner: It is my firm belief that people should get into a university based on their achievement, not on their skin color. I don't care if they're smart "for a black person." I want them to be smart and hardworking for ANY person. It's not creating equality between races, it's making the separation thrive because it is such a focus.

My school doesn't have such preferences. We accept the students that we think would do well here. There's nearly equal numbers of boys and girls, and just looking around the lounge I'm sitting in I see people of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds. We still have different cultures and such represented, and all of them had to do some level of work to get here. My college isn't the most prestigious, but you do have to put in some work in high school to be able to get in here. Everyone here did the work we needed to, and no one had to work extra hard simply because they were of a certain race.

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#2 Lessa Nikia

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:58 PM

At my university there are no preferences and about the same number of each gender. We even have many, many exchange/international students here

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#3 Niel an' Tyomn

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:28 AM

I for one have no clue ... Still in Middle School, but there I am in the Academy for the Gifted and Talented (The smart peoples!) :laugh:

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#4 Panchi

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

There are special quotas for the backward classes an scheduled tribes. While it is helpful in bringing them at par with the society, it also means there is less chance for general category students.

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#5 RandA lThor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:30 PM

My high school doesn't have race and gender policies that influences who they choose, obviously since it's a high school. Like Heart said, the inclusion of these policies enforce the separations between these people, and it doesn't help people overall. Now some people are concerned that those people who have less money have less opportunities and by targeting races, we can bring in some of those people who would have been brilliant if they had money. However, instead of looking at race and gender here, we should look at poverty instead and provide financial aid, which almost all colleges do, or maybe all, I don't know. Anyways, having these systems doesn't really contribute. Is it worth it just to say that you have an equal amount of a certain race if you have to deny entrance to people who are brilliant and are missing out on an opportunity that they have worked very hard for.

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#6 wheeloftime13

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:58 PM

My school doesn't have any. We have people of all ethnicity groups, and everyone who I know/ am friends with, treat everyone equally. I do not think that schools should separate by ethnicity or gender because everyone can learn... unless they don't want to, in which case, they can drop out when they reach a certain age.

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#7 dapianoplay3r

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:26 AM

In new Zealand there are special places saved for Maori people and some courses have extra scholarships attached if you are female over male

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#8 Samuraiflip05

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:29 AM

I don't think you will find many schools that have seperations anymore. Especially not in modernized countries. What Pankhuri said about general populace losing out due to the inclusion of lower status students can hold true in any country. Lower class citizens here can receive grant funding for college, but the basis for those grants are sometimes geared more towards minority demographics. In all my time as a working adult, I have never qualified for grants.....loans yes.....but never grants(Grants are not repayed). It never mattered how little I made, it was always just enough above the cutoff, that I couldn't afford it on my own and didn't qualify for assistance. BLEH!
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#9 Sakaea

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:38 AM

My high school was predominantly white, but my college was a mix of every kind of person. Very diverse, decent environment.
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#10 Kukasö

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:07 AM

Russian Universities/colleges usually have gender preferances, they prefer boys. Mainly because boys go to military service and girls can always try again next year.

Some universities/colleges have gender preferances because there are mostly girls(like teachers training) and they need at least some boys studying there.

That's not shown very much, more like if a boy and a girl are more or less equal they prefer the boy.

I don't think there are any race preferances or nationality. There are some quotas for foreign students but that's different question.

The main preferance everywhere is money. And now we have so weird system that some parents try to move their children from good schools in capitals to some village school for the last year so they'll get better results on their exams(there are almost no control over exams in the villages).

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#11 Ironeyes

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:11 AM

Affirmative action=discrimination against white males. Plain and simple.
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#12 dapianoplay3r

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:39 PM

Im all for the judging of who gets in and who gets scholarship being just a number thing. They just see that #1937 has really good work and should get it. They shouldnt see that they are a minority or something like that.
The problem is that lots of people claim they are underprivileged and need the extra help. I think we should do the (not sure is this is them but its close by if its not) Sweedith thing and have super high taxes. Then all their schooling is free, all their medical costs are free, etc. That way they are all on the same page. Then it's not a matter of privilage, its a matter of drive and hard work.

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#13 Smiley73

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:17 AM

Why do I feel this topic was made for me... I'm going to post a really round-about look at the topic, but I think it's worth giving the context

So it doesn't take much knowledge about South Africa to assume that we're still making our way out of Apartheid. To be honest I'm surprised we're as far as we are now. I was in '95 so a year after elections and a few years after Apartheid policies got loosened. As for how I'm surprised with the progress we've made, that deals with the fact that my parents and grandparents lived their whole lives (or great parts of it) under Apartheid policy, but we seem to have (for the most part) left a lot of that behind and people interact well enough. Racism still exists, make no mistake about that but it's good to see that people's mentalities have changed.

One of the policies put in place after Apartheid was aimed at redressing the wrongs of Apartheid, basically getting black people into high positions which they couldn't get into before because of Apartheid. In business it's called BEE (Black Economic Empowerment) which is pretty self-explanatory, but similar policies and quotas exist elsewhere, in university acceptances and even in private scholarships and bursaries. So what the government really wants here is equal representation in South Africa, so blacks who form the majority of people in South Africa should hold the majority of high-end positions, which is a great goal to have in terms of equality, because that's the sort of statistic you would expect to see in a equal society. The problem here is that most of the people we'd want to empower here don't have the skills needed to fill those positions, which means we either get inadequate people in positions of power or people are used as a front for their colour.

But moving on, education. So this is particularly pertinent to me because I'm applying to universities next year. There isn't a massive amount done in primary and secondary school I think, but at a tertiary level things start happening. Each university has it's own entry policy and they weight on different things but I'm pretty sure all of them in some way do discriminate on race, for 'redress of past wrongs' course, but I might rant about that later. So my first choice university, the university of Cape Town (UCT), has an admissions policy based almost solely on marks. So where they differentiate is on how good your marks should be to get into your course.

I'll take medicine as an example, because people seem to use it often to illustrate the point and because it's where I want to apply to. There's about 200 spots open and competition, as always, is fierce. The universities guide for undergraduate applicants has all sorts of marks for probable acceptance and they are as follows (these are the marks that you get for your final matric exam):

Open (white and international students): 90%
Indian: 88%
Asian: 88%
Coloured: 83%
Black: 80%

That's a range of 10% between open and black, which is a world of difference. So there's all sorts of problems with the system, firstly is seems quite arbitrary, where do you make the cut-offs for race, and how do you determine how much you should advantage one group over another, secondly (and here's where the rant comes in) right now your discriminating against people who have not gotten any direct assistance from apartheid, the people applying to universities this year were born in '94, the year Apartheid ended, they're really being discriminated against for something they can't control and over and above that race isn't really an indicator of the quality of education you got.

I think Rand said that using socio-economic factors would be better, and I agree with him there, it still screws me over, but at least I can accept it as a more just system, because there's poor whites and rich blacks and your either giving people and unneeded advantage or disadvantage by looking purely at race.

All of this has got me in quite a personal predicament - I don't know what race I am. My mom's white and my dad's Indian, where does that leave me? Indian because my skins sorta the right colour and I relate more with that grouping? Coloured because I'm mixed race? White because I go to a fancy school? I really don't know and thinking about it makes me sort of uncomfortable.

I'll probably get into uni regardless of what race I choose (or I could opt out of any races and be classed in Open) as long as my marks stay about the same as they are now, and I have no intentions of letting those drop at all.

So that's race in South Africa, hope you enjoyed the long read :P


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Edited by Lessa Nikia, 15 September 2012 - 10:56 AM.

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#14 blank

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:59 PM

Well I'm pretty lucky where I am from.

I'm sure the university that I went to in Scotland may have a policy about diversity but it isn't really needed in Scotland. We are incredibly lucky to have a free education system in Scotland, I didn't pay any fees to go there at all, and if you're coming from the EU (except england, wales and northern Ireland) you don't need to pay to come at all either, we are all funded by a body called SAAS.

Our fees apart from that are significantly lower that most universities in Britain so we get a lot of international students applying which the university love because it is the main source of income.

And because we have such a high international student rate they are also very keen to take Scottish students as well. I love the system in place because it shows such a range of diversity at universities in Scotland. Not just in race but also in socio-economic statuses.

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Edited by Lessa Nikia, 30 September 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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#15 Tyzack

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:25 AM

Now that it is October, the Supreme Court will be weighing in on this issue.

{note that the month had nothing to do with it, other than October is when the court's term starts}

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