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Who thinks Rand is insane?


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Poll: Is Rand insane? (60 member(s) have cast votes)

Is Rand insane?

  1. Yes, he is insane. (10 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. No, he is not insane. (6 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. He was insane before melding with Lews Therin on Dragonmount. Now he is sane. (44 votes [73.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 73.33%

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#1 r2debo

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:29 AM

I am interested in the community's official stance on this topic.

Edited by r2debo, 04 March 2012 - 10:30 AM.


#2 Jarlaxle

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

Rand is so insane by this point that he is making very sane decisions and saying very sane-wise things....what.?
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#3 Kadere

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

If you're talking about ToM then no, he's no longer insane. He was genuinely insane, but hasn't been since Veins of Gold. I'm pretty sure Nynaeve checking him in ToM and seeing how his insanity is held back by the veins of gold prove this.
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#4 Terez

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 05:09 PM

He was never really insane in the first place. Just crazy. There's a difference. Insane is killing everyone you love and tripping over your wife's dead body while calling her name and wondering where the hell she went.

So, Rand's not crazy any more. He's more of an unwitting psychopath. He's been thinking Moridin's thoughts for a few books now, and has no clue.

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#5 Finnssss

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 07:28 PM

So, Rand's not crazy any more. He's more of an unwitting psychopath. He's been thinking Moridin's thoughts for a few books now, and has no clue.


An interesting theory but is there really enough evidence to conclude it's as advanced as actually thinking his thoughts.
Feeling what Mordy feels and vice-verse seems very plausible but actually thinking his thoughts might be a stretch, no?

Not saying it's not a possibility, just wondering what specifics you're basing that off of.
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#6 Terez

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:23 PM


So, Rand's not crazy any more. He's more of an unwitting psychopath. He's been thinking Moridin's thoughts for a few books now, and has no clue.

An interesting theory but is there really enough evidence to conclude it's as advanced as actually thinking his thoughts.
Feeling what Mordy feels and vice-verse seems very plausible but actually thinking his thoughts might be a stretch, no?

Not saying it's not a possibility, just wondering what specifics you're basing that off of.

Irritably, Rand pushed his sleeves down and dropped into a chair. What he had done made no matter to Logain. The man knew saidin was clean, but he could not believe Rand or any man had actually done the cleansing. Did he think the Creator had decided to stretch out a merciful hand after three thousand years of suffer­ing? The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower or die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.

For an instant, he thought those must have been Lews Therin’s reflections. He had never gone on that way about the Creator or anything else that he recalled. But he could feel Lews Therin nod­ding in approval, a man listening to someone else. Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin. How much space remained between them?

“Taim will have to wait,” he said wearily. How long could Taim wait? He was surprised not to hear Lews Therin raging for him to kill the man. He wished that made him feel easier.

Totally clueless.

Edited by Terez, 04 March 2012 - 08:25 PM.

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#7 Finnssss

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:37 PM



So, Rand's not crazy any more. He's more of an unwitting psychopath. He's been thinking Moridin's thoughts for a few books now, and has no clue.

An interesting theory but is there really enough evidence to conclude it's as advanced as actually thinking his thoughts.
Feeling what Mordy feels and vice-verse seems very plausible but actually thinking his thoughts might be a stretch, no?

Not saying it's not a possibility, just wondering what specifics you're basing that off of.

Irritably, Rand pushed his sleeves down and dropped into a chair. What he had done made no matter to Logain. The man knew saidin was clean, but he could not believe Rand or any man had actually done the cleansing. Did he think the Creator had decided to stretch out a merciful hand after three thousand years of suffer­ing? The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower or die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.

For an instant, he thought those must have been Lews Therin’s reflections. He had never gone on that way about the Creator or anything else that he recalled. But he could feel Lews Therin nod­ding in approval, a man listening to someone else. Still, it was not the kind of thing he would have considered before Lews Therin. How much space remained between them?

“Taim will have to wait,” he said wearily. How long could Taim wait? He was surprised not to hear Lews Therin raging for him to kill the man. He wished that made him feel easier.

Totally clueless.


Wow really? I tried to be as polite as possible to not start any bullshit but apparently that's just not an option with you is it?


Too funny.

Either way, I'll admit it's an interesting albeit non-definitive interpretation of that single passage.
"Also, you can all go rot in a flaming pit of fire and ashes, you unwashed lumps on a pig's backside. Have a grand bloody day."
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#8 Terez

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:23 AM


Totally clueless.

Wow really? I tried to be as polite as possible to not start any bullshit but apparently that's just not an option with you is it?

No, it's not an option with you [Removed]

Either way, I'll admit it's an interesting albeit non-definitive interpretation of that single passage.

It's the only logical interpretation of the passage. It's not Rand's thought, and it's not Lews Therin's thought. It's one of the early clues of the merge, and of course, everyone missed it...until KOD came out and the identity of the 'other one' was confirmed

Edited by yoniy0, 05 March 2012 - 04:00 PM.

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#9 rand4747

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:20 AM

He seemed to have picked up some from Moridin/Ishmael but I think most of Rands actions were the insanity, he just had been gaining a bit of Moridins thoughts. Ishmael/Moridin was mostly insane anyway although on becoming Moridin it seems to have lessened somewhat.

But whatever the insanity was its gone after VoG, Rand is still quite strange couse hes got all these old memorys from lews therin and at least early on after VoG he had ones before that even. I think his strangeness is just to do with the revelation he had, he seems to recover after a bit of time though.

#10 Terez

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:08 AM

Well, that appears to be what we are supposed to believe...that all is well now, and the danger is past. But there are several clues in TOM that all is not well. Most of them are debatable, like Rand's continuing cold treatment of Cadsuane (which some could interpret as only right, and some could interpret as Brandon allowing his own prejudices to seep in). His arrogance when it comes to breaking the seals (particularly in his thoughts in that lone POV). And then the dream, which indicates (along with Min's viewing) that they are still linked. And the fact that he's still linked to the True Power, and simply chooses not to use it for the moment.

So, agreed that the madness is gone, but the 'strangeness' probably has at least a little bit to do with Moridin.

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#11 Terez

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:33 AM

[Removed]

Edited by yoniy0, 05 March 2012 - 03:19 PM.
Rudeness and personal attacks

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#12 Xo Meltdown oX

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:03 AM

I am not certain what is really happening with Rand, but I have to agree Terez. We are meant to believe he is all Zen Rand, but something very strange is going on. I am not ready to post any theories yet, but I am certain we are in for a surprise.
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#13 Finnssss

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:10 PM

[Removed]

That's too funny. Considering your animosity towards me started way back when you tried to assert that Demandred wrote "Fog and Steel" and all I said was that is was a stretch. I didn't even laugh at you like some others did. [Removed]

I tried to be as polite as possible in this thread, I have apologized openly before for missing something you said in a post and when you were looking for a resource for what characters made their first appearance in tGS, I tweeted one to you.
As far as the boss at TL, we talked and I have held my word from that both there and here since.
[Removed]

I lost all my animosity towards you after my talk with the TL boss. [Removed]

Anyway, good luck and good health.
Cheers

Edited by yoniy0, 05 March 2012 - 03:46 PM.
Irrelevant personal comments

"Also, you can all go rot in a flaming pit of fire and ashes, you unwashed lumps on a pig's backside. Have a grand bloody day."
-First Prince of the Ravens


"I know too much now, but too little then. You could say I was hanged for knowledge."
- Mat "I am no bloody Lord" Cauthon

#14 Terez

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:20 PM

That's too funny. Considering your animosity towards me started way back when you tried to assert that Demandred wrote "Fog and Steel"

See, I never did that. [Removed]

I tried to be as polite as possible in this thread, I have apologized openly before for missing something you said in a post and when you were looking for a resource for what characters made their first appearance in tGS, I tweeted one to you.

Yeah, and that had nothing to do with wanting to show me that you knew something I didn't know. :rolleyes:

[Removed]

[Removed]

Edited by yoniy0, 05 March 2012 - 03:47 PM.
Again

WoT Reference Library // twitter.png@Terez27

 

I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#15 yoniy0

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

Guys, it's pretty clear to me that this whole argument started when Terez said Rand was clueless about Moridin's thoughts, and Finssss thought she was talking about him.
Regardless, you should both know how to avoid these situations by now. In the future, just disengage. Simple as that. Your complaints should be sent to a moderator/Luckers, not posted here (and this goes for everyone reading, not just these two).

I don't think this pole should be closed because of this argument, so please stop.
If you rather not use PM, you can always email me to yoniy0 at dragonmount dot com for moderation questions.

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#16 Kael Pyralis

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

He was never really insane in the first place. Just crazy. There's a difference. Insane is killing everyone you love and tripping over your wife's dead body while calling her name and wondering where the hell she went.


That's what I've been saying! But of course no one jumps all over Terez when she says it... just poor old Kael Pyralis who's obviously just trolling.
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#17 Terez

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:11 PM


He was never really insane in the first place. Just crazy. There's a difference. Insane is killing everyone you love and tripping over your wife's dead body while calling her name and wondering where the hell she went.

That's what I've been saying! But of course no one jumps all over Terez when she says it... just poor old Kael Pyralis who's obviously just trolling.

And it wasn't even me. :myrddraal: But I don't see why anyone would accuse you of trolling for saying that Rand wasn't precisely insane, so long as you acknowledged the fact that he was, in fact, rather nuts.

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#18 yoniy0

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:21 PM

Bear in mind, that not everyone here is a native speaker. These distinctions, trust me, aren't as clear to us. If you said he wasn't insane and didn't specify (as Terez said), some (myself included) wouldn't understand where you're coming from.
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#19 Terez

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:25 PM

Well, it's not exactly a legitimate distinction anyway. 'Insane' is a strictly legal term denoting someone who can't distinguish between right and wrong (like Lews Therin), but the field of psychology has distanced itself from the term. I have a feeling that RJ was aware of that particular controversy, especially as it relates to the insanity plea.

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I kind of wish the last book was written by Terez. I would probably have to spend weeks looking for a damn ending and then decrypting it, but no doubt it would be perfectly thought out. :wink:


#20 ShowMeYourRage

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:26 PM

I think he is sane. But only because of milky white brain syndrome. I do not think hearing Lews Therin was his only insanity. The wild mind stuff doesnt happen any more. And hes always aware of what hes doing. Before he would be muttering under his breath. He even started acting like Moridin which was a new layer to the madness in and of itself. Even though he got over the Dragon Reborn hardness thing and even though he got rid of the voice he still has all the black shards in his mind which seems clearly to do with the Taint, but Nyn said the milky stuff protects him from it. He made some progress on Dragonmount, but the Taints effects means he should still be insane. Yet he isnt.
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