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Release Date Announced: Jan. 8, 2013


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#261 The Fisher King

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:16 AM



I still disagree with this. Not to simply be argumentative, but because I believe it. To say that marketing and profit play NO part in the release of such a product is of course silly.

You need to tell us HOW it's supposed to make more money to delay it.

I also don't agree that the absence of a ''Holiday Season Release'' hurts them. Actually - and I have worked in the industry/retail - many times Christmas Sales and Holiday Discounts LOWER profit on products.

They lower retail prices, which doesn't affect how much money the publisher gets at all. So if it's supposed to lower profit for Tor, then you need to explain how. People in the publishing business have disagreed. Are you in the publishing business?



Well, for one thing, last week Tor announced that they will be selling "lead-up" merchandise to AMOL later this year. It rubbed me the wrong way to see how commercialized something I have such an artistic attatchment to is becoming. I certainly support Tors right to do so, though.


Fish

Edit. Didn't see your question. Sorry. No, I am not a publisher. I have worked in the industry however, and it makes me sad to see how currently rife with dissension and disagreement it is on so MANY issues. But THAT is an entirely different topic.


What sort of merchandise?


LOL. Well, that was predictable. Just keep in mind that not everyone agrees. It's not about marketing to Harriet so much as it is about doing things the right way, clearly. Choosing another artist at this point would have been downright tacky. Choosing Whelan was thematically the only right choice, for many reasons, most especially 1) he was already doing the ebook cover, 2) he was on RJ's original shortlist of two for the cover artist, 3) he is one of the most celebrated cover artists of all time, and 4) they had to do their best to honor DKS's memory, just as they did their best to honor RJ's memory by having the books finished properly.


Sorry, Terez, but I can't resist.

Daryl K. Sweet's cover art and illustrations are universally loathed. Worldwide. The Foreign publishers insist upon creating their own covers. At extra expense to themselves. That's how universally loathed Sweet's covers are. Honoring his memory properly would be to ask a First Grader to color-up something original with the BIG Crayons.

It's one more weak excuse heaped upon a pile of bad and questionable decisions being made by the people we are supposed to trust to make the book BETTER????


Foreign publishers tend to create their own covers anyway, so it really does not say anything about the quality or lack thereof of the art if different publishers use different cover art for books.


I have no idea. But, you can go to Tor.com and read their post announcing the Delay. They mention it in there.


Fish

#262 jenniferl

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 07:41 PM

It's the already announced things like the comics and the new paperbacks with the eBook cover art on them. All stuff that was in the works anyways. As far as I know, there are no plans for anything else from Tor.

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#263 jenniferl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:31 PM

Tor announced today that the eBook will be released April 9th, 2013. http://www.tor.com/b...-date-confirmed

Try to contain yourselves.

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#264 NetSlider

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:00 PM

I used to think the push back was all about the hype and the selling season, but the fact that the release is after Christmas pretty much rules out the 'hype-machine' theory. I think, just maybe, they are trying to do right by us in the long term. We won't remember when this book was released after 5 years......just saying....

Right, bc book 13 would be a good present for christmas for a newcomer. Christmas will be for attracting new readers through new covers of previous books.
I already expressed my thoughts on the whole issue and from following the thread i c nothing new said here that shows why it will take 12 months for THREE PEOPLE to edit the work of one person. For those that say i dont understand the process, please, provide white papers links or some other factual data that will prove to me that it is something that is industry standard. All i c is people "rolling their eyes" and dismiss any critics with "u just dont get it."

*sorry for spelling, im on my phone.
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#265 Suttree

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:59 PM

I already expressed my thoughts on the whole issue and from following the thread i c nothing new said here that shows why it will take 12 months for THREE PEOPLE to edit the work of one person. For those that say i dont understand the process, please, provide white papers links or some other factual data that will prove to me that it is something that is industry standard. All i c is people "rolling their eyes" and dismiss any critics with "u just dont get it."


If you have read the entire thread you have seen posts from industry insiders, BS assistant and others who have discussed the reasons behind the delay. Brandon hasn't even finished the "big one" yet in terms of revision drafts, the new artist requests numerous months to read the text, BS is writing in someone elses world, it has been shown how long RJ actually took after he ran out of pre-written material, and last but most important Team Jordan has admitted to how poor the quality was for TGS and ToM and is taken every step possible to address those issues. Harriet wants to protect RJ's legacy and make this the best possible book it can be. It has been stated that Harriet has wished for even more time and she should be applauded for not rushing the process.

One final time, everyone who dismisses the Holiday season knows very little about how the publishing industry/retail works. It has very little bearing that this is the final book in the series. The percentage of people in these fan communities are such a small portion of the overall number that will buy this book and buying it for "newcomers" is not the issue in the slightest. The majority of people, even those that have read the entire series won't even know the book is out until they see it on the shelves.

Edited by Suttree, 15 March 2012 - 10:02 PM.

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#266 jenniferl

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:40 AM

Yeah, if Peter Ahlstrom, one of the guys who are responsible for managing the revision process comes in here and says "This is how long it's going to take" and some folks chose not to believe that, then there's really nothing else to say on the matter. I get being frustrated by the wait. I want the next book as badly as everyone else. But yelling at the people writing it isn't going to help that.

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#267 Simpleman2012

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:48 AM

Brandon did a great job with the series when he took over.

By book 9, the pace was almost dead and plodding, espacially the parts that did with the women. Was Harriet the writer for those long winded parts? Do we really need to know how Egween will turn her head, which direction she faces, and which foot her horse started off with?

I mean,20 over pages dedicated to just the dress she or Elayne wears in their dreams! C'mon, it's irrelevant to the plot! I can understand slow times, and showing their motivations, but those pages were excessively long, long winded and was not even relevant to the storyline.I almost threw the book away and gave up on the series.

But when Brandon came along, as well the quick publishing dates, my interest pick up back again. The pace was great, and it moves pretty well with the activities of the other actors in the plots, not that excessive and mindless as the past, except still a bit slow for the women actors, but much better than before.

As for this long date to publish the final installment, I think Harriet did a disservice to loyal fans of Robert Jordan. I doubt if Robert himself wanted to kept it that long and long drawn.

Much of the plots and storylines were already long completed before he passed on. Those delays had only turn off loyal fans, as well as done an injustice to the late Robert Jordan.

Like Rand on Dragonmount in Book 12, Jordon, and even to a certain extent Brandon, understood what they both were writing for. It seems No one, No one else in the decision making board, understood.

#268 Taryn

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:50 AM

Whether or not it is actually a 'good' present for newcomers, people will still buy it, especially as gifts for friends or family members. You can read one of these books and enjoy it (albeit, not fully) midstream. I don't think people would see that as too much of a problem. With a good marketing machine, companies can get people to buy all kinds of things, whether they need the item or not. So, yeah, I think that the Christmas season would still be prime time to sell the book from a profit standpoint.

I do agree with you Suttree, most people won't know its out until it hits the stores, or at least until Amazon tells them its time to pre-order ;)

#269 Thom_Merrilin_UK

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:57 AM

Thank you Harriet and Tor <heavy sarcasm> for the e-book release date.

Well the release date of the e-book three MONTHS after the hardback proves once and for all Harriet doesn't give monkey's about those of us who read e-books. Her stance that a book isn't a book if it needs an external power source doesn't fly. She allows audio books the same day, they need an external power source. This is the biggest kick in the teeth for people who cannot hold heavy hardbacks, or only use e-readers.
A very sad day the fact we have to wait over three months. The worst part of it, for Harriet and Tor is that by making it such a long gap between the two people WILL look elsewhere for a copy.

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#270 Nightstrike

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:10 AM

Thank you Harriet and Tor <heavy sarcasm> for the e-book release date.

Why laying the sarcasm on them? They're not the only ones in the process of negotiating the terms. Maybe it is more expensive to publish the books that way? You want something expensive - you pay for it.

Edited by Nightstrike, 16 March 2012 - 08:13 AM.


#271 Nightstrike

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:26 AM

1. The cost of the hardware.
2. The cost of the software.
3. Negotiating with others.

#272 Thom_Merrilin_UK

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:31 AM


Thank you Harriet and Tor <heavy sarcasm> for the e-book release date.

Why laying the sarcasm on them? They're not the only ones in the process of negotiating the terms. Maybe it is more expensive to publish the books that way? You want something expensive - you pay for it.


Actually it is NOT more expensive to produce an e-book. The release date IS down to Harriet and Tor. I would advise you to check Amazon, most authors who release e-books release them the same day as the hardback is. So, the fact Harriet and Tor are holding it back is purely down to Harriet, and her well-known dislike for e-books. This is a massively unfair action by them, they are hurting the fans who read their books this way. The fact that GRRM released a Dance with Dragons the same day in e-format and got it still got to #1 on the NYT list proves that simultaneous release DO work, aMoL would still make #1 if it was done in e-format. This is nothing but a vindictive action.

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#273 ptolemy99

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

I have read the thoughts and opinions of everyone regarding this issue. The turn around on this book still is annoying. I get what people are saying about Harriet and the process. She wants to preserve her husbands legacy. His legacy is already preserved in all our minds. I read one post from someone who was part of the publishing team about not wanting to spend too many overtime hours working in a short time frame like that did last time. I disagree!

We have been reading this saga for 2 decades now. We have been patient and supportive for the story and certainly for the Robert Jordan. His loss was not just a loss of an author for many of us. But at some point, everyone on this project needs to remember that we matter too. You will have midnight openings which people will line up for waiting for the chance at the book. Jordan-con doesn't happen because Harriet is a nice (I assume she is!). It happens because of all of us in this community.

I want the book to be great. Its probably going to be the best of the series. I've bought the series several times over through the years, lending out some, losing some. But I always make sure to get new copies. This is probably the case for many people. It's time that Harriet and her team went into overdrive. Not because we don't like her, but because it's the right thing to do for the fans. Loyal, supportive, caring fans who have dedicated a big part of themselves for this project too.

I don't mind paying or getting in line or anything else. If it CAN'T be done that is one thing. Not doing it because you want to take an extra 3 months just because you want perfection, that is another. It will never be perfect no matter how many years you took. But it will be great and a lot of extra effort on their part at this point would be an appropriate way to say thank you to all us fans, supporters and friends of WOT, Robert Jordan, Harriet, et al.

#274 Nightstrike

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:34 AM

Actually it is NOT more expensive to produce an e-book.

For those who don't have to pay for the hardware.

The release date IS down to Harriet and Tor.

No.



This is nothing but a vindictive action.

If they got the same benefit as they did with printed books, why would they be "vindictive"?

#275 Thom_Merrilin_UK

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:42 AM


Actually it is NOT more expensive to produce an e-book.

For those who don't have to pay for the hardware.

I am guessing you know nothing about e-readers then. You can read them on smart phones with an app. You can read them on your PC with FREE software.


The release date IS down to Harriet and Tor.

No.

Epic fail. The release date of the e-book IS down to her. check your facts. ToM was going to be six months till Brandon got it cut, the original date was Harriet's decision. No one else's.



This is nothing but a vindictive action.

If they got the same benefit as they did with printed books, why would they be "vindictive"?

There is NO real reason for the delay, other than the simple fact Harriet does not like e-books. when other authors do a same date release of hardback and e-book and can make #1 on best sellers why, oh why can aMoL not be done the same?

Edited by Thom_Merrilin_UK, 16 March 2012 - 08:43 AM.

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#276 Nightstrike

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

There is NO real reason for the delay, other than the simple fact Harriet does not like e-books.

Harriet doesn't like e-books. She doesn't like e-book readers. She's vindictive. She wants her revenge on the e-books readers. She delays the e-book release purely out of spite, no matter her personal loss.

#277 Nightstrike

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

But the real question is whether she's reborn or not. What do you think?

#278 Suttree

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:40 PM

I don't mind paying or getting in line or anything else. If it CAN'T be done that is one thing. Not doing it because you want to take an extra 3 months just because you want perfection, that is another. It will never be perfect no matter how many years you took. But it will be great and a lot of extra effort on their part at this point would be an appropriate way to say thank you to all us fans, supporters and friends of WOT, Robert Jordan, Harriet, et al.


There is a huge difference between striving for total perfection and rushing the process so we as readers have to deal with spotty writing and multiple mistakes. TGS and ToM suffered greatly because they went through the process far too fast. The author and Team Jordan have flat out admitted these mistakes, changed their process(both BS's writing and the revision process) to address them and vowed it wouldn't happen with the last book in the series. There is zero reason for them to rush out an inferior product and every reason to get it right in what is ultimately the final work that RJ's life's work will be judged upon.

Edited by Suttree, 16 March 2012 - 12:43 PM.

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#279 ptolemy99

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:02 PM

There are thousands of reasons to do so. They are called RJ's fanbase. I work with deadlines and people all the time. Everything can be rushed while maintaining high standards. And they can too if they were inclined to. You have sipped their drink. That is fine. I disagree. More time does not lead to a direct correlation of better product.

There is a certain amount of time needed and they need to figure out how to minimize it. We aren't unreasonable people and support them. But I will not accept this is the best they can do. And neither should you.

Edited by ptolemy99, 16 March 2012 - 05:24 PM.


#280 Jon Paul

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

I'm very upset about the e-book release date. I'm furious actually. That this great series will be translated to electronic format... it's horrible! E-books must be destroyed and purged for mankind's history. They're the worse thing to happen to humanity since the great flood. As far as I'm concerned if you want to read you do it properly!
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We ran to the sounds of the thunder,
We danced among the lightning bolts,
And tore the world asunder.