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Continued Discussion of Week 3 Matches


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#21 Yamahako

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 07:59 AM

The Lan victory was a complete popularity contest. Lan is one of my three favorite characters in the series, and like most of us, I've been dying for the Lan vs. Mat showdown, but Lan would have been slaughtered by Fain. As much as it hurts to say it. And those of you predicting Lan beating Mat, you're dreaming. Yes, Lan is the best swordsman in Randland, but Mat is the best warrior, bar none. Mat beats any non- channeler in the series. Period. Even without luck. You heard me. Mat and his ashandeiri against any other warrior with any weapon. He wins. I mean, c'mon, he beat two of the top four on Jordan's personal list of the best blademasters in Randland at the same time. And this was before he even had his knowledge from Finnland. He's the absolute best fighter in the series. This is not up for debate. He would beat Jearom, he'd beat Lan, and in a strictly physical fight, he'd beat two handed Rand. He already beat Galad and Gawyn (again, at the same time). His skill and new knowledge from all the dead dudes make him unbeatable in a one on one physical fight. Assuming this comes down to any fight against anyone other than Ishydin, he wins. Game over man, Matrim Cauthon is the greatest warrior in the history of Randland.


Both Tam and Abell are better than Mat though aren't they? This is stated many times in the series. Now, with his luck that probably changes things - but I actually think there's a fairly good case for Tam to be the best warrior when leaving Mat's luck out of the equation. (1) He's the best or second best with the bow (out of the BEST bowmen in the world as told from multiple points of view - Seanchan, Whitecloaks, Aiel, and others), and (2) the best or second best with the staff (Abell being fairly close in skill seeing as how one wins when the other doesn't), (3) he's a for real blademaster, and (4) he has ACTUAL battle experience (unlike Abell). With his luck though, Mat can't be beat outside of the True Power. Moridin is the only one in the series with a chance against Mat.

Edited by Yamahako, 06 February 2012 - 08:02 AM.


#22 Duskfire

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:20 AM


The Lan victory was a complete popularity contest. Lan is one of my three favorite characters in the series, and like most of us, I've been dying for the Lan vs. Mat showdown, but Lan would have been slaughtered by Fain. As much as it hurts to say it. And those of you predicting Lan beating Mat, you're dreaming. Yes, Lan is the best swordsman in Randland, but Mat is the best warrior, bar none. Mat beats any non- channeler in the series. Period. Even without luck. You heard me. Mat and his ashandeiri against any other warrior with any weapon. He wins. I mean, c'mon, he beat two of the top four on Jordan's personal list of the best blademasters in Randland at the same time. And this was before he even had his knowledge from Finnland. He's the absolute best fighter in the series. This is not up for debate. He would beat Jearom, he'd beat Lan, and in a strictly physical fight, he'd beat two handed Rand. He already beat Galad and Gawyn (again, at the same time). His skill and new knowledge from all the dead dudes make him unbeatable in a one on one physical fight. Assuming this comes down to any fight against anyone other than Ishydin, he wins. Game over man, Matrim Cauthon is the greatest warrior in the history of Randland.


Both Tam and Abell are better than Mat though aren't they? This is stated many times in the series. Now, with his luck that probably changes things - but I actually think there's a fairly good case for Tam to be the best warrior when leaving Mat's luck out of the equation. (1) He's the best or second best with the bow (out of the BEST bowmen in the world as told from multiple points of view - Seanchan, Whitecloaks, Aiel, and others), and (2) the best or second best with the staff (Abell being fairly close in skill seeing as how one wins when the other doesn't), (3) he's a for real blademaster, and (4) he has ACTUAL battle experience (unlike Abell). With his luck though, Mat can't be beat outside of the True Power. Moridin is the only one in the series with a chance against Mat.


Well, it was stated that before the boys left Two Rivers they were better. But not only has Mat gained a buttload of experience, but he most likely gained a great deal of knowledge concerning fighting from his memories as well. All three of the boys are better, so theres no reason to think that Mat hasnt improved significantly as well.

#23 Rose

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 05:01 AM

Also, who thinks Tam and Abell are better than Mat? Mat. This proves absolutely nothing, as we've many times learned in the WoT to rarely trust what the characters believe about themselves . . .

I also belive Mat would win against Lan. Against Fain though? Not unless he's still connected to the dagger somehow, and that plays out in a way we don't expect. Lan has even less of a chance. Fain would destroy him.

Edited by Rose, 07 February 2012 - 05:20 AM.

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#24 gwenifer

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 12:46 PM

i personally would have loved to see perrin and his bad ass hammer in the cage matches


I wish he was included too, for he's one of the most original WOT fighters.

I just hope that aMoL will be much more satisfying than "Merlin" finale...


#25 Entreri

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 01:00 PM

While Fain would slaughter Lan, 100% CERTAINTY, with 99.9% certainty, Fain would slaughter Mat. That 0.1% is for the ta'avern affect.

Mat would win over Lan due to LUCK. If Mat's luck plays not part in the battle, Mat is toast against Lan. Lan is definitely the better warrior, 100% certainty on this as well.

#26 Suttree

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:03 AM

While Fain would slaughter Lan, 100% CERTAINTY, with 99.9% certainty, Fain would slaughter Mat. That 0.1% is for the ta'avern affect.

Mat would win over Lan due to LUCK. If Mat's luck plays not part in the battle, Mat is toast against Lan. Lan is definitely the better warrior, 100% certainty on this as well.


100% certainty to your mind maybe. There have been more than enough posts showing people disagree. For some reason you seem to totally discount the weapon advantage"Jearom story", Mat beating Gawyn and Galad together(pre Fins), and increased memories/skills from the Fins.
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#27 Revim

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:37 PM

I stumbled upon the cage matches in a googling session and found out I'd joined this site already. I'm another of those who think's Lan is pretty damn awesome but he stood no chance against Fain. Just to throw in my 2c on the Mat vs Galad and Gawain bit. He won while they were still training (Galad was already pretty superior in the sword skills department.) But no one has mentioned how frail he was at the time, recovering from his link with the dagger.

Anyway, the real reason I came to post: Lan vs Fain.

What follows is my interpretation of how it would have gone down. (I skewed the odds in Lan's favour a bit and tried to let my respect for him flow through in my writing.) I'm not any kind of professional writer so if your criticism is on my grammar, please be gentle.




The creature that sometimes remembered being Padan Fain muttered to itself, “Can dead Shadowspawn know fear?”

He harboured an intimate knowledge of fear in others; surely the creatures that served him couldn’t feel such a thing. Yet, there it was in the corner of his mind reserved for communicating with his minions. Fear. Sweet, putrid fear.

A quizzical look adorned the creature’s features as Fain ended his latest sport with a thrust of the jewelled dagger that was as much a part of him as his own nose. The gurgling and clicking of the man’s last breath through a severed windpipe would never be as satisfying as dying scream, lasting unbroken hours that only he, Mordeth, knew how to coax from a victim. Unfortunately, anything that could cause him to feel this sensation through his lifeless thralls demanded a personal hand in the matter.


aL’Lan Mandragoran danced through the Trollocs’ corpses that walked and fought once more. Surely, The Last Battle must be nearly done for such horrors to exist. They were corpses again in truth once he and his blade passed.

Fight him well Sheepherder, Thought the indomitable Warder.
Aloud he cried, “Tai’shar Manetheren!”

None who had entered the battle with him remained close enough to hear. Lan hoped that some at least were still drawing breath. The men and boys whom he had led into a war unlike any known for countless generations. Light, let some still live.

From the corner of his eye he spied a reflection on his blade, a Myrdraal somehow paler than usual, though it’s garb was as black, it’s face as eyeless as ever. Long ago had he mastered his fears, he felt them again in the look of this Fade however, a picture of Nynaeve lying bloodied and broken skittering outside the Oneness. Hubris took him. Boar Rushes Down the Mountain broke it’s defence before Eagle Rides the Warm Wind took it apart, knees, waist and neck. Five pieces of Myrdraal hit the ground. Dead. Again. They stayed dead if you killed them again, died faster than the Eyeless usually did too.

“Well, well, if it isn’t the Warder from that night in Emond’s Field.” Announced Fain stifling a giggle. He licked up a drop of blood that dangled from his blade.

Lan’s eyebrows contracted slightly, not just at the sight of the former peddler, the Shadowspawn were all stilled mid-motion, as if they were statues. The honed instincts that separate a true warrior from a mere fighter told him to be cautious, he said nothing. The hard planes of his face said nothing. His stony gaze proclaimed him ready to meet death, as he always was. If the Gaidin was aware how close some of those motionless Trollocs were to landing the final blow while he was consumed by his ire, he let not the knowledge show. The open irritation on Padan Fain’s face dictated his course of action.

Cloaking himself in the form known as Emptiness aL’Lan Mandragoran, Lord of the Seven Towers, uncrowned king of Malkier strode purposefully towards the once peddler, his senses a razor’s edge.

Mordeth sent his Trollocs into motion as one. They fell to the Warder’s blade and he didn’t even break his stride. Fain cackled gleefully at this and went forth to meet Lan.

Shadowspawn became statues once more from the moment the Warder’s blade was turned with the peddler’s dagger and a dextrous wrist movement from the latter. Fain swayed, dodged and melted with a stuttering, inhuman grace out of the way from Lan’s sure and deadly cuts and thrusts. In turn Lan stepped, circled and parried Fain’s mad movements. Their battle was by no means as beautiful as a meeting of blademasters, but just as fatal and just as impossible to turn away from.

Mordeth snickered, “The memories of Machin Shin have gifted me with knowledge of the true blademasters. They make this Warder seem a babe in swaddling.” After suffering several nicks in an impossibly short succession Fain amended that thought. “Maybe not a babe, but a half-trained youth at best.” Still, he sensed something more was needed to win this contest.

A mist began to gather, thickened into a fog and thickened still. Lan recognised Mashadar even before the telltale tendrils began to seek him out. What he did not know was how it was outside Shadar Logoth which is no more.

A low feint caused Fain to leap, the Warder mimicked him, at least insofar as to jump. His heavy boots both planted into Padan Fain’s face, blood exploded and several teeth scattered as the Warder landed with a backwards roll. Mindless Mashadar drew closer. Lan hacked a leg out from under one of the frozen Trollocs which fell into the clutches of the evil fog.

Fain still rolled groggily upon the earth as Lan continued with his stalling tactic, but Mashadar moved in such a way that he couldn’t approach the prone peddler… Unless!

Using a downed Trolloc as a stepping stone, the mighty Warder initiated an even mightier leap. He somersaulted at the peak so as to avoid the grasping tendrils of fog, he spotted several patches where Mashadar seemed to coalesce even denser, but had no time to consider this once he’d landed. Fain was gone! A mad laughter bubbled, seemingly from within Mashadar itself.

Man-shapes made of Mashadar detached themselves from the solid wall of fog that now surrounded Lan. Briefly, he lost the Oneness. Lan thought of his love for Nynaeve; used emotion to steel his unconquerable resolve even further.

aL’Lan Mandragoran, Lord of the Seven Towers, uncrowned king of Malkier, unmatched in battle prowess even by the Aiel, now faced an enemy steel could not vanquish, a power that could steal his very soul. He said nothing. The lines and angles of his hard face said nothing. His greying hair was testament to his power, a lesser man would not have such and retain the power and quickness of youth. A lesser man could neither have understood how he continued, unfazed against insurmountable odds.

Padan Fain, watching from within the safety of Mashadar could not understand how the Warder maintained such a guise when faced with the certainty of such an unspeakable end. He felt fear stir deep within his very being and they were not such close friends when the dread was his own.

Lan’s first stroke -a vicious downward slash that should have torn his foe in two- did nothing. When combined with the might of a power wrought blade it would have rent a boulder. The fog-man of Mashadar reached out with it’s arm and touched him. For the first, and the last time in his life Lan screamed in pain and in terror. Fain felt the reverberations of a similar scream from half a world away and instinctively knew his blow to Al’Thor this day was twofold.


Nynaeve sat hard on the flagstones, ceasing her verbal flow mid-tirade. The dark eyed Sister of the Yellow Ajah, almost as unbreakable as her Warder husband gibbered and moaned, broken and useless. Her friend, Elayne the golden haired queen of Andor, upon seeing this began to weep as a little girl might if she discovered the monster under her bed was real…

#28 Verbal32

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:23 AM

verbal


Hi!

jc-1.jpg

 


#29 Revim

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:59 PM


verbal


Hi!

I see what you did there. Hi

#30 Luckers

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:03 PM



verbal


Hi!

I see what you did there. Hi


Don't talk to it. You'll only encourage it to talk more, and that is always a bad idea.

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#31 Dollhouse

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:03 AM

So I can discuss the matches of week 3 here?

Okay lets start with Nyanave vs Cyndane.

Why I think there might be a microscopic chance of Nyanave winning it certainly wouldn't have been in the way that the writing doen by the admin suggested.

1a. You can only unravel waves if you know what you are looking for. Cyndane would have used inverted wafves so they would have been invisible to Nyanave. Waving her attacks in a way that isn't done in the third age, Cyndane could have continue attacking Nyanave and never had to worry about her waves being unraveled.

1b. On the contratry, it would have been far more likely that Cyndane unravelled all/most of Nyanave's waves instead. Even if Nyanave inverted her waves, unless Nyanave just continued coming up with some crazy new attacks on the drop of a hat, Cyndane would be able to unravel everything thrown her way.

2. I don't remember. Did Jordan say that Matt's terangreal could unravel balefire hitting him? If not, then a quick shot of Balefire would have killed Nyanave even if she had that other shield as well.

3a. Cyndane might not be as strong in the world of Dreams as Moghedien but while she certainly did have a temper and an ODD sense of humor I don't think she would ever be as stupid as Moghedien was. Turning her back away from Nyanave? Trying to catch her with waves instead of using the world of dreams immidatelly? And when she had caught her -- instead of dealing with her immidatelly just standing there and thinking?

3b. She would have seen Nyanave's sword and stopped her with a simple thought in the world of dreams.

"Hey. I want you to kill this dude they call the Dragon and then break me outta jail. While I'm stuck in here... Hmmm..... You. You're in charge. And you'll need a cool sounding title. What do you think of Nae'blis? Good? Okay. I'm gonna take a nap."