Jump to content


Photo

Week 1: Cadsuane vs. Lanfear


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
50 replies to this topic

Poll: Week 1: Cadsuane vs. Lanfear (295 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. Cadsuane (133 votes [45.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.08%

  2. Lanfear (162 votes [54.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.92%

Vote

#1 Dwynwen

Dwynwen
  • Administrators
  • 6,737 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Redlands, California

Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:30 AM

Posted Image

Write-up by: Luckers


The Contestants

Lanfear
Age: Several Centuries
Race: Human
Weapon: the One Power
Special: Age of Legends knowledge.

Cadsuane Melaidhrin
Age: 295
Race: Human
Weapon: the One Power
Special: A group of ter'angreal designed to protect the wearer against attack with the one Power.

The Breakdown

Advantages
Lanfear: great skill as a channeler.
Cadsuane: remarkable adaptability to situation, great experience at confrontation.

Disadvantages
Lanfear: overly confident, dismissive of Third Agers.
Cadsuane: arrogant.

How we think the fight will go, Note: This is set circa aCoS before Cyndane first appeared, and just before Cadsuane first meets Rand. This way we can eyewink away the fact that Lanfear already had a mild case of being dead.



The girl was dressed all in white, albeit white streaked with dark ash. A finely woven belt of silver caught the dress at her narrow waist, and silvery crescent moons hung in dishevelled sheets of dark hair; but for all that the woman looked as if she was just pulled from a burning building, she walked with admirable grace, a queen who made the wide grounds of the Lady Arilyn’s manor her throne room.

Not that it was that which held Cadsuane’s attention—queens did not impress her-but rather that the girl resembled a drawing Cadsuane had once seen in a book written about the Forsaken. Rumours persisted, of course, that the Forsaken were free. Such was to be expected when the Dragon Reborn walked in the world—both the rumours and the potential for truth—but on a list of things she had not expected, one of the Forsaken appearing on her very doorstep stood perhaps highest—if indeed this truly was Lanfear.

“Are you Aes Sedai?” the woman called out, her tone half-demanding.

Santhra’s book had contained descriptions of some of the Forsaken, as well as drawings. The eyes were right, like dark pools in a face carved of ivory, and certainly the girl was a remarkably pretty child. The voice also-musical, half-way to singing—but then, such accents were common in Cairhien. That height, however, was not common, certainly not amongst the noble houses.

“Are you in need of help, girl?” Cadsuane asked, gliding forward across the gentle ground.

A brief flash of irritation, quickly masked. The girl did not like being so named. “My horse threw me, out on the street.”

Was the ash on her dress then supposed to be dirt? Cadsuane did not say this, of course—if this truly was Lanfear then Cadsuane needed to get closer before she realised the danger she was in.

“Horses are fickle creatures,” she murmured in sympathetic tones. Fickle, yes, if you did not know how to ride properly. Would a Forsaken be able to ride? A thought for another day. “What is your name, child?”

For a moment something that might have been annoyance flashed in those black eyes, but it faded fast, after which the girl simply stared at her, face completely blank, and Cadsuane could not catch a glimpse of what thoughts turned behind her cool mask. “You do not believe my story, do you?” she asked, smiling-the barest curving of her lips. “Very well, my name is Lanfear.”

So, it was out in the open then, and Cadsuane still had ground to cover-nevertheless she came to a stop. Anything else would have been taken as a threat. She attempted to look surprised, or perhaps wary, yet the expression felt strange upon her face. Yet for all that Lanfear seemed pleased with the reaction, which fit with what little Cadsuane knew of her, and that was little enough. Santhra's nasty piece of work was perhaps the most expansive on the subject of Lanfear, and it had covered almost nothing beyond the description. Still, there had been some pieces within it, some slivers...

The Daughter of the Night was always a woman who seemed as if she should have been more than what she was, Santhra had written. Amongst the most beautiful women of her Age, and certainly one of the strongest in the Power, she nevertheless failed to rise beyond the ranks of mediocrity amongst the Servants. Indeed, if campfire tales can be believed—and I see no alternative given the scant detail known through more reliable sources—then her one great undertaking-a 'bid to unite male and female Aes Sedai as never before’-turned to disaster and ruin that ‘shook the world'.

Santhra came to the conclusion that this, ultimately, was the reason for Lanfear's obsession with Lews Therin. Not love, nor, in truth, even anger at the rejection he had offered her, but that his rejection closed paths she felt she deserved. Would that be the key then? Give the Forsaken what she wanted?

It was a complicated question, especially given that Cadsuane had no real idea just what a woman with all the knowledge of the Age of Legends was capable of. Very likely her skill exceeded Cadsuane's own by a considerable degree—and if that was not as uncomfortable a thought as she had ever had, then she did not know what was! Another woman might even have found the prospect of pitting herself against such a foe daunting, but Cadsuane had never been the sort to shy away from a challenge.

“And what does the Daughter of the Night want with me?” she asked in a quiet voice, knowing the girl would mistake it for fear.

“I confess I do not know,” Lanfear’s smile had faded, leaving her face an ivory mask once more. “I had asked the Eelfinn for a way to kill Lews Therin-al'Thor, as you would know of him… and they sent me here. To you.”

The Eelfinn. That was a name few but scholars would recognise, even amongst those who remembered the stories of the Tower of Ghenjei—gift givers, and the answer to wishes, but fickle; far more fickle than horses. This fit with other things she had heard, and largely disregarded. It would appear that more credit should be given to the rumourmongers than she had realised.

"I have heard of you, you know," Lanfear continued, her gaze running up and down Cadsuane in a manner that seemed almost amused. "When first I woke, I walked in your White Tower, and heard the stories—of you, of the men you caught. They are quite impressive."

Nothing could have made it clearer that this woman did not regard her as the slightest threat. Almost, she found that amusing herself. Almost.

“So the Eelfinn sent you to me for my aid?” she did not have to struggle to place doubt in her voice, which-by Lanfear’s face-had worked near as well as the subserviance she would have never been able to have managed.

“Are you a Friend of the Dark, then?”

Cadsuane snorted. Even were she capable of lying, she would not pretend to be a Darkfriend. “I am no fool.”

“No, I can see that,” the smile grew wider, “and Friends of the Dark are fools. When the Great Lord rises, they shall be as chattel—though that stands better than the rest of the world. Still, you need not be either.”

The woman began to walk toward her.

“I’m listening,” Cadsuane said slowly, as if uncertain. If there was truth in that, then it ran skin deep; enough to evade the First Oath, but certainly far from the whole story.

"Which somewhat surprises me,” Lanfear continued walking towards her, that same smile flickering on her face. "You seem much more... reasonable... than I had been led to believe."

Reasonable? She was being downright meek! Still, everything to a point, and the fact remained that she had not drawn the Forsaken close enough. Did the woman truly believe that Cadsuane was the answer to her wish? That she would be a tool to kill the Dragon Reborn? It would be convenient if Lanfear did believe, but Cadsuane had never been one to rely on convenience, and anyone who knew of the Eelfinn knew that no matter how pretty the bauble, the Foxes always had their hooks.

“Very well,” Cadsuane said, "I will take the boy.”

“That easy?” Lanfear cooed, but Cadsuane did not believe it for an instant.

“I find I grow too old not to consider immortality,” Cadsuane replied, “and that would be the price. But you do not believe me—I remind you that I have said it, and by the First Oath I am bound. I will take the boy.”

Cadsuane would hold to her word, of course—she would take the boy by the scruff of the neck, and do what must be done, prices be damned!

Lanfear came to a stop, clearly uncertain, but it was too late; she had come too close. The Forsaken must have felt Cadsuane draw upon saidar through the shrike dangling from the bun of her hair. Certainly the light of saidar sprung up around the Forsaken with a speed that Cadsuane might have marvelled at, were she a different sort of woman. As fast as Cadsuane prepared her own weaves—and there were none in the Tower who could match her speed—Lanfear was faster. Had her shield actually struck Cadsuane, it may well have stilled her-so sharply, so precisely was it woven-but instead she felt one of her ornaments—two inter-twined moons—go from cold to icy against her temple, and the shield dissolved.

The Forsaken recovered from her shock fast, and wardings spun about her in an intricate web, a crystalline lattice Cadsuane rather doubted she would be able to force, but even as she allowed her weaving to crash harmlessly against the warding, she ignited another of her ter'angreal, one which could disrupt a weave without touching it, provided she stood close enough.

Lanfear's eyes went wide once more as her warding wavered and then vanished, leaving not even a residue of the Power to mark its former existence. She tried to react—Cadsuane could feel her drawing upon saidar, but Cadsuane had talked herself too close to grant the girl time to respond. Her weaving was not subtle—when she needed to, Cadsuane could weave with great delicacy, but there was no need for that, now. Weaves of Air tore into the Daughter of the Night, and her body came apart piecemeal. The sound of it was distinct, and rather sickening, if truth be told, but the only gesture Cadsuane permitted herself was to twitch aside her skirts to avoid the growing pool of blood.

For a time she studied the remains of the Forsaken, thinking. Tomorrow she would approach the boy, but she did not believe she would mention this. Lanfear had been Lews Therin’s lover in the Age of Legends, and if reports from what had occurred several months ago on the docks of Cairhien were to be believed—and apparently they were—then Lanfear had woven her way back into the boy’s life, and there was too much work she had to do with him for her to risk his reaction to this news.

Her thoughts turning to more important matters—like how to rein in a scared and hurting boy before he doomed the world—Cadsuane glided from the garden without a backward glance.

Predicted Winner: Cadsuane

You have until Saturday, January 21st at 9:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time to vote.
White Ajah Aes Sedai...Bonded to BenT-Gaidin...Sis of Nia, MJF, and Mighte...Mentor of Many

#2 Elgee

Elgee

    Dragonmount's Cuddly Elaida

  • DM - Staff
  • 30,460 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cape Town South Africa

Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:45 AM

Luckers, that was breathtaking! It's eerie how you captured those two characters, especially Cads.

ElgeeAmmy.jpg

 

nvm . . . LOL!  I was behind the times and thought we were still on horses . . . :biggrin:

 


#3 vanceme

vanceme
  • Members
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:51 AM

Great write up Luckers! You almost convinved me to change my vote. I can't help but think, though, that Lanfear's first reaction to a paralis net would be to put distance between herself and her enemy. Rarely do we see her put herself needlessly in harms way, and generally that is only when a hole al'thor brings out her bipolar side. All she ever wanted was love... And complete dominion over all, but is that such a large thing to ask?

#4 Sylvan Fox

Sylvan Fox
  • Members
  • 310 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 12:18 PM

That was a pretty cool story, Luckers.

#5 RayB

RayB
  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 12:23 PM

Hmm.. I dunno. It might go like that if Lanfear didn't recognize Cadsuane's Ter angreal, but supposedly she would know them even better than Cads herself! She is pretty cocky tho which would be her downfall... Much to think over.
Posted Image

#6 Kael Pyralis

Kael Pyralis
  • Members
  • 1,018 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:00 PM

Hmm.. I dunno. It might go like that if Lanfear didn't recognize Cadsuane's Ter angreal, but supposedly she would know them even better than Cads herself! She is pretty cocky tho which would be her downfall... Much to think over.


I agree, Lanfear may know.. particularly since we know LTT claims to have worn similar and she probably stole them out of his underwear drawer now and then to wear while he wasn't home...

Though I'd probably still give it to Cads, she just has too many nifty things. Not sure what Lanfear could do about it without her own.
"A man who who tended to milking and being the occasional blacksmith is suddenly killing men who have been fighting since they were young in a warrior society.
But oh my God, a young Aes Sedai decided to share her advice with an older one in regards to her warder. Stop the presses." - Elan Tedronai

"A bit OT, Mat lost an eye, Rand a hand, and Perrin is lame." - Balefired-ed2

#7 Luckers

Luckers

    Hostile Witness

  • Members
  • 14,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:02 PM

Thanks guys. Glad you enjoyed it! :)

Hmm.. I dunno. It might go like that if Lanfear didn't recognize Cadsuane's Ter angreal, but supposedly she would know them even better than Cads herself! She is pretty cocky tho which would be her downfall... Much to think over.


She didn't recognize Nynaeve's, why would she recognize Cadsuane's? A paralis net could take any form, much the same as any ter'angreal. Neither Rand nor Semirhage identified them in a vacuum either--each first saw them used, new them for a net of ter'angreal designed to protect the user, and then identified the.

As for cocky, Cadsuane's cockiness is all about certainty in herself, not blindness towards others. :)

I can't help but think, though, that Lanfear's first reaction to a paralis net would be to put distance between herself and her enemy. Rarely do we see her put herself needlessly in harms way, and generally that is only when a hole al'thor brings out her bipolar side. All she ever wanted was love... And complete dominion over all, but is that such a large thing to ask?


It so isn't.

But yeah, Lanfear didn't recognise the paralis-net for what it was--which is supported by the books--and she knew no greater danger in moving closer. The rest was my gesture to Cadsuane's 'remarkable adaptability' as RJ stated it--she held off the fight until she was close enough to use the ter'angreal she used to reveal Semirhage.

Follow Me On Twitter: or check out my WoT FAQ and Theories

------

Terez: The word 'douche' appears twice in the database. Both times it's you


Luckers: I'm nothing if not a creature of habit.

------

Brandon Sanderson: I KNOW I did a good job. Not perfect, but very good. I know it as an artist.


#8 Master Ablar

Master Ablar
  • DM - Staff
  • 2,374 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:05 PM


Hmm.. I dunno. It might go like that if Lanfear didn't recognize Cadsuane's Ter angreal, but supposedly she would know them even better than Cads herself! She is pretty cocky tho which would be her downfall... Much to think over.


I agree, Lanfear may know.. particularly since we know LTT claims to have worn similar and she probably stole them out of his underwear drawer now and then to wear while he wasn't home...

Though I'd probably still give it to Cads, she just has too many nifty things. Not sure what Lanfear could do about it without her own.


The same as she did with Alivia I'm guessing. And Alivia is quite strong to go along with her vast experience in blasting things to bits. Overall I'd give it to Lanfear, partly because Lanfear would know how to fight an opponent with a paralis net, but Cadsuane is as tricky an opponent as they come.

Edited by Master Ablar, 15 January 2012 - 04:48 PM.

I think one of the reasons the Black Tower has become so popular in fandom isn't just that you get to dress in black and set fires with your mind, it's the sense of struggle the Asha'man have. To save the world, they have to embrace the part of themselves that's terrible and destructive. They risk madness to learn how to channel. It's a tremendous sacrifice they make.


#9 Crusader12

Crusader12
  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:14 PM

What a tough choice. I can only say that whoever wins (and I have no idea who it would be) this would be one of the coolest battles there is. I agree with the style of battle, I think these 2 would both be too calculating to get into a saidar-slugfest--it would definitely be a metaphorical stones game between the 2 with the winner taking victory through some very subtle maneuver like this. I can see the argument a few have raised about the paralis-net, and yes I think Lanfear would have recognized it, and been cautious. It doesn't mean (unless I'm missing some data) that she would know what the various pieces did, but yes she would have been more cautious than this and it probably would have been a longer pre-fight sequence of feeling eachother out.

#10 Luckers

Luckers

    Hostile Witness

  • Members
  • 14,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:23 PM

Again, Cyndane only recognized the paralis-net on Alivia when she saw it work. She even specifically notes that Alivia was wearing jewellery and doesn't connect it to a group of ter'angreal. Rand also wouldn't have been able to recognise the paralis net as what it was at just a glance.

Follow Me On Twitter: or check out my WoT FAQ and Theories

------

Terez: The word 'douche' appears twice in the database. Both times it's you


Luckers: I'm nothing if not a creature of habit.

------

Brandon Sanderson: I KNOW I did a good job. Not perfect, but very good. I know it as an artist.


#11 Crusader12

Crusader12
  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:36 PM

Again, Cyndane only recognized the paralis-net on Alivia when she saw it work. She even specifically notes that Alivia was wearing jewellery and doesn't connect it to a group of ter'angreal. Rand also wouldn't have been able to recognise the paralis net as what it was at just a glance.

Ah, you're right. Thanks for that. Sorry about bringing up a point that was already handled, when I'd pulled up the thread those posts hadn't been made yet.

#12 Master Ablar

Master Ablar
  • DM - Staff
  • 2,374 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:48 PM

Again, Cyndane only recognized the paralis-net on Alivia when she saw it work. She even specifically notes that Alivia was wearing jewellery and doesn't connect it to a group of ter'angreal. Rand also wouldn't have been able to recognise the paralis net as what it was at just a glance.


And Cyndane survived. Also, it sort of depends on how the fight happens. If Lanfear is taken by surprise, obviously Cadsuane has a good chance. But if it's a straight up fight where the two are just trying to kill each other, Lanfear will have enough time to realise Cadsuane has a paralis net and know how to counter it.

I think one of the reasons the Black Tower has become so popular in fandom isn't just that you get to dress in black and set fires with your mind, it's the sense of struggle the Asha'man have. To save the world, they have to embrace the part of themselves that's terrible and destructive. They risk madness to learn how to channel. It's a tremendous sacrifice they make.


#13 master

master
  • Members
  • 90 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:55 PM

meh, I'd say lanfear, she's stronger [counted as one of the strongest female channelers in the aol], but not by much though,she would also have a lot more knowledge with weaves that cadsuane doesnt [like opening a gateway a throwing her into the world of dreams if its set before cadsuane learned travelling],and she has access to the true power. But it would be close in my opinion.

According to the thirteenth depository it says that Jordan has stated that she does have something that works like mats amulet.So that would give a fairly large advantage. But evem mats amulet isn't proff against indirect attacks and he can carry it through a gateway. So there are some things that don't work against it. And most of the rest are described as early warning systems.

#14 Suttree

Suttree
  • Members
  • 10,430 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 15 January 2012 - 04:59 PM

Excellent write up Luckers. Think you do a very good job of capturing Lanfear's true character. My vote btw goes to Cads.
Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize, and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete wast of time. That is what I choose to do with my life." - Miki Dora

 


 


#15 Luckers

Luckers

    Hostile Witness

  • Members
  • 14,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:19 PM

Excellent write up Luckers. Think you do a very good job of capturing Lanfear's true character. My vote btw goes to Cads.


Cheers. :D

Follow Me On Twitter: or check out my WoT FAQ and Theories

------

Terez: The word 'douche' appears twice in the database. Both times it's you


Luckers: I'm nothing if not a creature of habit.

------

Brandon Sanderson: I KNOW I did a good job. Not perfect, but very good. I know it as an artist.


#16 damandred

damandred
  • Members
  • 1,000 posts

Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:29 PM

My vote goes to Lanfear, just.
Cads is a legend in her own lifetime but lanfear is a legend from an age of Legends.

#17 Datakim

Datakim
  • Members
  • 63 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:16 PM

This match is somewhat flawed in that its less about Cadsuane vs. Lanfear and more about Lanfear vs. Ter'angreal. The only way Cadsuane could ever win is if Lanfear is surprised by the ter'angreal and taken in by a sneak attack. It might be within the rules, but it does not exactly impressive if thats the only way Cadsuane could ever win.

Kinda makes you wonder actually, why everyone in the books is so impressed at Cadsuanes legendary feats. Any decent female channeler could have captured the male channelers she did, if they had had the overwhelming advantages given by the paralis-net. She only achieved what she did because she was lucky enough to meet a wilder willing to give Cadsuane all her neat toys. Kinda takes away from her legend if you think about it.

#18 Master Ablar

Master Ablar
  • DM - Staff
  • 2,374 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:48 PM

This match is somewhat flawed in that its less about Cadsuane vs. Lanfear and more about Lanfear vs. Ter'angreal. The only way Cadsuane could ever win is if Lanfear is surprised by the ter'angreal and taken in by a sneak attack. It might be within the rules, but it does not exactly impressive if thats the only way Cadsuane could ever win.

Kinda makes you wonder actually, why everyone in the books is so impressed at Cadsuanes legendary feats. Any decent female channeler could have captured the male channelers she did, if they had had the overwhelming advantages given by the paralis-net. She only achieved what she did because she was lucky enough to meet a wilder willing to give Cadsuane all her neat toys. Kinda takes away from her legend if you think about it.


I'm not a huge Cadsuane fan to be honest, but capturing a bunch of male channellers only scratches the surface of her achievements.

I think one of the reasons the Black Tower has become so popular in fandom isn't just that you get to dress in black and set fires with your mind, it's the sense of struggle the Asha'man have. To save the world, they have to embrace the part of themselves that's terrible and destructive. They risk madness to learn how to channel. It's a tremendous sacrifice they make.


#19 vanceme

vanceme
  • Members
  • 55 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:53 PM

Again, Cyndane only recognized the paralis-net on Alivia when she saw it work. She even specifically notes that Alivia was wearing jewellery and doesn't connect it to a group of ter'angreal. Rand also wouldn't have been able to recognise the paralis net as what it was at just a glance.


^ i was thinking after Cad's first use (melting weaves) she would recognize it, not right off the bat. If i saw my weavez melt, i would be minded of a paralis and be wary of other potential weapons hidden in her hair. Though, i could also see Cads provoking her, having read about Lanfear's temperment. I guess I'm still on the fence

#20 Luckers

Luckers

    Hostile Witness

  • Members
  • 14,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:59 PM


Again, Cyndane only recognized the paralis-net on Alivia when she saw it work. She even specifically notes that Alivia was wearing jewellery and doesn't connect it to a group of ter'angreal. Rand also wouldn't have been able to recognise the paralis net as what it was at just a glance.


^ i was thinking after Cad's first use (melting weaves) she would recognize it, not right off the bat. If i saw my weavez melt, i would be minded of a paralis and be wary of other potential weapons hidden in her hair. Though, i could also see Cads provoking her, having read about Lanfear's temperment. I guess I'm still on the fence


Again though, she doesn't do this when fighting Alivia as Cyndane. And consider how rare ter'angreal are in the modern age. Why would she leap to the deduction that a paralis-net survived whole, including ter'angreal she did not know was possible? And in a few seconds? Naah.

One unlikely thing at a time.

Follow Me On Twitter: or check out my WoT FAQ and Theories

------

Terez: The word 'douche' appears twice in the database. Both times it's you


Luckers: I'm nothing if not a creature of habit.

------

Brandon Sanderson: I KNOW I did a good job. Not perfect, but very good. I know it as an artist.