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Those Crazy Mormons!


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#221 Blackhoof

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:22 PM

I have just started to work on a school where most teachers are Christian. They pray for me, that I should find their kind of faith in God. I don´t get offended by that. For them, that is the nicest thing they can do for me. I don´t plan to join any of their churches but I´m happy that they care about me. I guess different people see it in a different way. I don´t think there is a bus waiting for me, so to speak, so it doesn´t matter if I get a ticket or not.


this sort of thing would annoy me greatly. of course they believe that they are right, but there is a difference between thinking that you are right and constantly telling people "hey, im right, did you know? im right, im right im right, that means your wrong,your wrong, be right like me im right im right"

that comes off as extremely disrespectful to me. disrespectful of your beliefs and you as a person.
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#222 Nightstrike

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:02 AM

this sort of thing would annoy me greatly. of course they believe that they are right, but there is a difference between thinking that you are right and constantly telling people "hey, im right, did you know? im right, im right im right, that means your wrong,your wrong, be right like me im right im right"

that comes off as extremely disrespectful to me. disrespectful of your beliefs and you as a person.

The mormon's baptizing isn't anything like that. They don't proclaim they are right for everyone to see, it's only the atheists and others who can't keep away from looking into LDS proceedings because they must know what Mormons do in their own churches.

Edited by Nightstrike, 08 April 2012 - 03:04 AM.


#223 Blackhoof

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:51 AM


this sort of thing would annoy me greatly. of course they believe that they are right, but there is a difference between thinking that you are right and constantly telling people "hey, im right, did you know? im right, im right im right, that means your wrong,your wrong, be right like me im right im right"

that comes off as extremely disrespectful to me. disrespectful of your beliefs and you as a person.

The mormon's baptizing isn't anything like that. They don't proclaim they are right for everyone to see, it's only the atheists and others who can't keep away from looking into LDS proceedings because they must know what Mormons do in their own churches.


sorry, i was referring to tina's anecdote about colleagues praying that she find god or somesuch, i was not talking about the posthumously baptising people.

although, i do think that unconsensual baptising, especially of the dead, is disrespectful and presumptuous.
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#224 TheePazuzu

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:41 PM

An intelligent person does not need the promise of heaven to see the merit in good deeds!

#225 bgrishinko

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:18 PM

An intelligent person does not need the promise of heaven to see the merit in good deeds!


Fair enough
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#226 Ryrin

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:39 PM


this sort of thing would annoy me greatly. of course they believe that they are right, but there is a difference between thinking that you are right and constantly telling people "hey, im right, did you know? im right, im right im right, that means your wrong,your wrong, be right like me im right im right"

that comes off as extremely disrespectful to me. disrespectful of your beliefs and you as a person.

The mormon's baptizing isn't anything like that. They don't proclaim they are right for everyone to see, it's only the atheists and others who can't keep away from looking into LDS proceedings because they must know what Mormons do in their own churches.


Apparently, there are people in the LDS church who don't keep their agreements. They need to police themselves more effectively then others won't need to do so.

"In the early 1990s, Jewish representatives complained about the practice, arguing that it disrespected Jews who died in the Holocaust. Mormon leaders agreed to remove them from the list of candidates for baptism, unless they were related to living church members. The task, however, proved difficult, and many of the names continued to pop up in the database. In 2010, the Mormons assured Jews that a new computer system would help solve the problem. But it exploded again in recent weeks as reporters published accounts of proxy baptisms for several well-known figures, including the deceased parents of famed Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal, and slain Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl."

Edited by Ryrin, 20 April 2012 - 07:40 PM.

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#227 bgrishinko

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:32 PM

Joseph Smith said when asked how he keeps Mormons in line, "I teach them correct principles, and let them Govern themselves." As such the idea of policing the members is a moot point.
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#228 Ryrin

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:06 PM

Joseph Smith said when asked how he keeps Mormons in line, "I teach them correct principles, and let them Govern themselves." As such the idea of policing the members is a moot point.


Is it unethical then, for church leaders to agree to refrain from actions on behalf of their members?

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#229 Azrael Maravaile

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:29 PM

Had a couple mormons stop by the house today, I asked them about the posthumous baptism of jews and others, and was told that it was not something that LDS members generally approved of, FWIW

“When I disagree with a rational man, I let reality be our final arbiter; if I am right, he will learn; if I am wrong, I will; one of us will win, but both will profit.”


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#230 bgrishinko

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:26 AM


Joseph Smith said when asked how he keeps Mormons in line, "I teach them correct principles, and let them Govern themselves." As such the idea of policing the members is a moot point.


Is it unethical then, for church leaders to agree to refrain from actions on behalf of their members?


Short answer: Church leaders are in no position to make promises for their members. But stating new church policies is not unethical.

Long Answer:
Mmmm... that's kind of a misleading question I think. If they did that, then it would be an abuse of power. They cannot definitively speak for everyone in the church. Church leaders have the responsibility for speaking for a religion as a whole. They are the spokesperson for an entire belief system. But I think we often treat them like CEO's of a corperation who can install new policies and guidelines and then fire people if they don't follow it. Religion doesn't work that way. It is a way of life and a mindset you live in. A belief in a higher power and how that effects your life. At its core is the idea that despite all the rules that exist, nobody is perfect and we are all striving to be better. As such, the wording of what church leaders say is always around the lines of "We've asked our members not to... " when it doesn't pertain to doctrine, etc. Even then there are some definitive commandments, but if a member doesn't follow it, that doesn't make the leader bad either way. But if an annoucement is made about a new policy and you are one of the many people who are chronically 20 mins. late for church, you'll never get the annoucement. It isn't doctrine from the scriptures, it isn't part of the lesson plans or sermons, etc. It is a social policy.

No. I think for any religion, whether it be LDS, Catholicism, Judiasm, Muslim, etc. the ability to choose right and wrong for yourselves is essential. It is not the responsibility of Church leaders to micro-manage people's lives; it is their responsibility to lead a global church in things that are the same no matter where you are and leave the smaller details to the individuals. If the leaders pronounce one thing, and the members do another, why do we blame the entire LDS church? I've known since I was little about the Holocaust names controversy and to only research your own family for the baptisms, for a long time, that seemed to be enough... but I also know people (especially converts who didn't grow up in the church) who know nothing about it. We don't quality check the names brought into the temple usually, that would be a fulltime job all by itself. We leave it to the members to sort it out. Its a bit messy at times, and the church has been trying different ways to prevent redundancies and correct procedures for many many years via software and barcodes, and this and that. But it is a hard problem to solve especially when everyone is lay clergy. So anyway, yeah.
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#231 bgrishinko

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:28 AM

Oh! This was an interesting read from CNN:

http://religion.blog...heir-community/




Washington (CNN) –Kevin Kloosterman, a former Mormon bishop, said he “came out” last year just not in the way that many people associate with coming out.

“I came out and basically made a personal apology to (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) folks for really not understanding their issues, not really taking the time to understand their lives and really not doing my homework,” Kloosterman said in an interview with CNN.
Though not speaking on behalf of the church, the then-bishop stood in front of a crowd of gay and straight Mormons at a November conference on gay and lesbian issues in Salt Lake City, Utah, where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is headquartered.
Donning a suit and tie, Kloosterman was visibly shaken, struggling to find the right words as tears welled up in his eyes.

“I’m sorry deeply, deeply sorry,” Kloosterman told the group in a speech that was captured on video. “The only thing I can say to those of you who have been so patient, and have gone through so much, is for you to watch and look for any small changes with your loved ones, with your wards (Mormon congregations), with your leaders. And encourage them in this repentance process.”

Kloosterman’s apology was just one example of what many Mormons and church watchers see as a recent shift in the Mormon community’s posture toward gays and lesbians, including by the official church itself.

Though the church’s doctrine condemning homosexuality has not changed, and the church remains opposed to same-sex marriage, many say the church is subtly but unmistakably growing friendlier toward the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, including voicing support for some gay rights.


...


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#232 Mr. Wumpus

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:38 PM

An intelligent person does not need the promise of heaven to see the merit in good deeds!


Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Don't post insults.