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Nasty Aiel in the Blight


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#1 MatBloodyCauthon

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:45 AM

Okay so I just finished my second re-read of Towers of Midnight and everybody who has read the epilogue has ran across the nasty Aiel in the Blight. So my question is who are these Aiel and where did they come from.

One of the things about them is the merchant from Andor notices Aiel in the blight with a red viel instead of black, not that big of a problem right. The next thing he notices is that these Aiel have very sharp teeth.

Input anyone?
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#2 Eht Slat Meit

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:50 AM

Okay so I just finished my second re-read of Towers of Midnight and everybody who has read the epilogue has ran across the nasty Aiel in the Blight. So my question is who are these Aiel and where did they come from.

One of the things about them is the merchant from Andor notices Aiel in the blight with a red viel instead of black, not that big of a problem right. The next thing he notices is that these Aiel have very sharp teeth.

Input anyone?


Here's the link for existing input on the subject:
http://www.dragonmou...l__ veiled aiel

#3 MatBloodyCauthon

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:10 AM

hmm seems like nobody really knows what they are but it's kinda hard when we have so little evidence on the topic.

There was also another thing in the Epilogue that caught my attention I'm going to ask the question here instead of opening a whole new thread since im 90% sure I'm right anyways.

and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy


The First Among Vermin in my eyes seems to point to Fain. Since Vermin is probably another word for non-channeler Darkfriends. but does this mean Fain will have a place in unleashing the dark one I just can't figure out how that is to happen since Rand is an extreme channeler now and could destroy Fain easily. And Fain hates the DO so why would he help unleash him makes no sence to me but maybe others could shed some light on the topic
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#4 Pinzarn

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:04 PM

hmm seems like nobody really knows what they are but it's kinda hard when we have so little evidence on the topic.

There was also another thing in the Epilogue that caught my attention I'm going to ask the question here instead of opening a whole new thread since im 90% sure I'm right anyways.

and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy


The First Among Vermin in my eyes seems to point to Fain. Since Vermin is probably another word for non-channeler Darkfriends. but does this mean Fain will have a place in unleashing the dark one I just can't figure out how that is to happen since Rand is an extreme channeler now and could destroy Fain easily. And Fain hates the DO so why would he help unleash him makes no sence to me but maybe others could shed some light on the topic


Is that in the Dark Prophecy?

I will agree that the First Among Vermin refers to Fain; however, I disagree with it having to do with Darkfriends. The terminology doesn't match well. Just like Forsaken is a light-side term and Chosen is the dark-side term, I doubt Vermin is a dark-side term for someone on their side.

#5 The Mistress of Baal

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:09 PM

Fain isn't really classifiable as a darkfriend. SInce that term is typically used to refer to allies of the great lord.

Fain is an enemy to the light, but an enemy to the shadow also.

#6 GYLD

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:18 PM

First Among Vermin seems like just a contemptuous way to refer to the First Among Servants, Lews Therin. Between Rand's old title and his plan to break the seals, it seems to be most logical interpretation of the prophecy.

#7 MatBloodyCauthon

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:53 PM

GYLD
very good assumption I hadn't thought of that. It seems plausible but I still have to go with my gut feeling on this and say its Fain for some reason he just fits the profile to me.
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#8 Pointer

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:08 PM

First Among Vermin seems like just a contemptuous way to refer to the First Among Servants, Lews Therin. Between Rand's old title and his plan to break the seals, it seems to be most logical interpretation of the prophecy.


This.

-Time. Flying on wings of lightning, it's gone in a flash with no hope of calling it back.
Surging to life, only moments to impact the world, never to be recreated exactly. Never as good as the original.
A moment's hesitation and the flash goes unseen. Another opportunity lost.
Soon the tempest will pass, as quickly as it appeared.
Will we be left drenched in bitterness, towards a storm we could not weather?
Or, with a smile, will we watch for rainclouds; eager to dance with the lightning again?-


#9 Jhinko

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:11 PM

This has been thourughly discussed in other threads together with the rest of the dark prophecies. Most seem to agree that First among Vermin is Rand, the Fallen Blacksmith is Perring and the One Eyed Fool is Mat. It is harder to find a consencus on who the Broken Wolf is.

Edited by Jhinko, 08 November 2011 - 11:11 PM.


#10 Lurk31

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:18 AM

I'm taking the "nasty teeth Aiel" as a Sharahn. In other sources (i cant site them atht he moment, unfortunatly) the Sharahns as wearing clothes very similar to those worn by the Aiel without the veils. Not much to go on, but the clothes, the black eyes and the insane culture in Shara just all seem to be indicators to me. Also, a little late in the game to introduce a wholy new group into the mix.
One more thing. Remember your LoTR, when Sauron brings up the men of the South to his banner. They are basicly savages and it seems very similar to me.

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#11 olver's grin

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:42 AM

I'm taking the "nasty teeth Aiel" as a Sharahn. In other sources (i cant site them atht he moment, unfortunatly) the Sharahns as wearing clothes very similar to those worn by the Aiel without the veils. Not much to go on, but the clothes, the black eyes and the insane culture in Shara just all seem to be indicators to me. Also, a little late in the game to introduce a wholy new group into the mix.
One more thing. Remember your LoTR, when Sauron brings up the men of the South to his banner. They are basicly savages and it seems very similar to me.


I agree with this. I've read on here that RJ/BS has indicated that Shara won't play any significant role in the series, but there's a difference between Shara and Sharans ;-)

My guess would be that Demandred has gathered an army of Sharans and lead them to the Blight.

#12 Suttree

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:07 AM

I'm taking the "nasty teeth Aiel" as a Sharahn. In other sources (i cant site them atht he moment, unfortunatly) the Sharahns as wearing clothes very similar to those worn by the Aiel without the veils.


Would be interested to see them as I don't recall this in the slightest. IRC the only Sharan we have seen outside of Graendal's lair is the one with his "silk worm" scheme and the clothes weren't similar.

KoD "Within the Stone"

A very dark fellow with tightly curled hair, at a square table beside the door, seemed not to notice the Maidens at all. Rand took him for one of the Sea Folk at first, though he wore a peculiar coat without collar or lapels, once white but now stained and wrinkled. “I tell you, I have many, many of the… the worms that make… yes, make… silk on a ship,” he said haltingly in an odd, musical accent. “But I must have the…the … andberry … yes, andberry leaves to feed them. We will be rich.”


One thing I had always thought though with how tightly controlled Shara has been with their trade up until this point, the country might be in "Lord of Chaos" mode after Graendal broke the seven year pattern in collecting the ruling couple. Don't see any other way this guy would have been able to get out considering the secrecy they have held until now. Also important is that they are the only country who has been breeding channelers this whole time. They could have a higher percentage of those with OP ability than the rest of Randland.

Edited by Suttree, 09 November 2011 - 11:13 AM.

Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize, and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete wast of time. That is what I choose to do with my life." - Miki Dora

 


 


#13 madmuo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:24 AM

This has been thourughly discussed in other threads together with the rest of the dark prophecies. Most seem to agree that First among Vermin is Rand, the Fallen Blacksmith is Perring and the One Eyed Fool is Mat. It is harder to find a consencus on who the Broken Wolf is.

Hopper.

#14 madmuo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:41 AM

Okay so I just finished my second re-read of Towers of Midnight and everybody who has read the epilogue has ran across the nasty Aiel in the Blight. So my question is who are these Aiel and where did they come from.

One of the things about them is the merchant from Andor notices Aiel in the blight with a red viel instead of black, not that big of a problem right. The next thing he notices is that these Aiel have very sharp teeth.

Input anyone?


Not sure, but I think it was in LoC, Rand asks Avi what happens to Aiel men who discover they can channel, she replies that they "Go north, into the Blight to kill Sightblinder(aka: The Dark One)" now if some of then were captured and corrupted by the taint, or directly by The Dark One's touch, and assuming that that this process has been going on since the Aiel reached the Threefold Land, then with the inclusion of some Darkfriend(Shadowrunner) Aiel, both male and female what do you get? And what better way to put the finishing touch on the Aiel's racial selfworth? that actually beats the Bleakness as a way to destroy them, don't you think? A whole Clan, possibly 2 or more, of Shadowrunners? Much, much worse than the Shaido....

Edited by madmuo, 03 March 2012 - 03:48 AM.


#15 madmuo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:45 PM


This has been thourughly discussed in other threads together with the rest of the dark prophecies. Most seem to agree that First among Vermin is Rand, the Fallen Blacksmith is Perring and the One Eyed Fool is Mat. It is harder to find a consencus on who the Broken Wolf is.

Hopper.

Having been induced to reread "The Prophecies of the Shadow" I must revise this, on further cosideration it seems obvious that the Broken Wolf is none other than Noal Chaim/Jian Farstrider, think about it.

#16 Sharaman

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:43 AM

Spears, veils, - we've never seen Sharans with either.
All we know of their male channelers is rumours that they keep them as ignorant, breeding machines and kill them off.
The perverted Aiel theory seems to fit better since it's plausible that the Shadow captured as many as possible over the years, turned them using 13x13, and bred them as secret servants of shadow based in the Blight using captured Borderlander women to breed with (which would explain the dark eyes genetically). The GLoD could mask the effect of the Taint
So the shadown would get a formidable force of channelers with killer martial arts and survival skills.
The chaps we see in ToM may or may not be channelers - they'd be great fighters anyway.

#17 Testy al'Carr

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:01 PM

i honestly think that we will be amazed by how much the shadow has been doing behind the blight line, but i don't know which way it will go. i hope that it will be a massive amount, with possibly a whole hidden civilization that even the black ajah was ignorant of (and that is what i think is going on) but it could just as easily be nothing (also amazing). but just keep in mind that even a black ajah aes sedai would be out ranked by a beggar on the street if he gave the right signs, something deeper must be going on. the dark is insane, it isn't stupid.
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#18 Sharaman

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

A hint of foreshadowing perhaps in that we know the shadowspawn in the Trolloc Wars were accompanied by Dreadlords - men and women channelers fighting for the shadow. The most obvious source of the male channelers would be Aiel MCs captured and turned 13x13 in the Blight. They'd be easy to shield and capture since they're untrained when they go into the Blight.

#19 From the Isle of Madmen

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

I agree with the theory that the Aiel we saw were turned channelers.
Although Taim has a good base of operations he still has one inferior (as far as we know) to Rand's
(reformed Tower sisters, Kin [some 1700], 'good' Sea Folk, 'good' asha'man [includes lower level ones, MAYBE a large number of sul'dam/damane pair soon?], 'good' Wise Women) in terms of sheer number.
It would seem that this idea of forced Shadowhood would help keep the number of Dreadlords somewhat balanced with the Light-side. I mean when it comes down to it one channeler for let's say at least twenty foot seems to be a good estimate of strength, and we are not even talking links/angreal, and for the Shadow to be just allowing this power-imbalance to occur is just ridiculous.
As far as Sharan channelers being the culprit, it seems rather unlikely. The Ayyad have their pens and kill any, as do all non-channeling Sharans, who make their way into their distinct living quarters; even if Shara was a huge base of operations for the Shadow (which it could very well be, huge portions of the globe were made into areas of the Shadow during the War of Power. However, with the Breaking and sealing of the Forsaken I would guess that these areas returned to the Light - or I would like to optimistically think so...), would it not make more sense for the Ayyad to 'turn' these individuals rather than just fry them on sight?
Also, I assume the male channelers of Seanchan had no Blight to sneak to for this Dreadlord preperation scheme (we all know it's out there) - I wonder what means the Shadow took to obtain some?