Discuss Demandred

[Luckers]

Go.

[WhiskyJack]

Dude is not even mentioned in the book!

[didymos]

Maybe that means he's actually and finally in one in disguise, given that in every one in which he appears as himself, he's not.

 

Yeah, probably not.

[Omega]

Given how much time he's spent off screen I gotta wonder if he's not amongst Rand's inner circle waiting to betray him at some point... though with Rand's new ability to seemingly pick out DF's at a long look it seems less likely. Then again his new found Second Sight of sorts may not be able to pick up everything, such as a powerful forsaken with inverted disguises.

[WhiskyJack]

^^I always thought that Demandred was a cross dresser.

[LazyMonk]

I think he's in a parallel world in seeing to the Trolloc production lines.

[Braden]

I think he is behind these new forces that resemble Aiel. I do like the suggestion above that he is within Rands Inner Circle and it would make for an interesting read in Memory of Light, but I don't think this is the case.

[gbuttsdc]

I really don't want him to be Taim, but right now thats what my gut tells me. The whole "preparing in another world" thing just doesn't feel right to me. I love Taim's character and saw a theory about him being a dread lord from the AOL preserved in a stasis box, and that would be awesome, but going off the comments and events I don't see any other choice for Demandred. He's built an army and they are prepared to fight - The BT is the only place we know of a sizeable force that is definately going to fight for the dark. No other kingdom will fight for the DO and I doubt he's spent all this time putting compulsion on thousands of soldiers. Taim from the very beginning has let little slips that suggest he's from the AOL. Like referring to "the so called aiel", his distaste for weapons, his knowledge of the OP without anyone to teach him, his not going mad from the taint. He was very adamant early on about recruiting like a mad man and finding as many male channelers as possible, and has taken the best of them for his private lessons which most of us assume involves being 13x13ed. LTT is never quiet around men who can channel but he has a special hatred for Taim right from the beginning and gets way more vocal in Rand's mind everytime he's close by. I think Rand figured it out from his memories sometime ago and has been biding his time b/c he knew it was to late to just walk in and shut it down. Why would Demy be spending all his time in another world isolated from everything just for a bunch of trollocs. They seem to have a pretty vast supply of trollocs and more can always be made. He considers himself a great and powerful general, would he want to lead a bunch of worthless trollocs or the all of the most powerful male channelers in the world. Seems the BT would be of much more value to the DO than more trollocs.

There is a good chance Taim is Moridin as well, but I don't think so b/c he's been pretty busy and due to their connection I think Rand would've recognized him quicker. To me it seems Demy would put himself in the greatest position he could to control the most powerful force possible. I don't think any army in the land can compare to the ashaman. Also, look at the battle when Rand was rescued from Elaida's AS. The BT was fairly new and the men were just learning, but Taim led them like an experienced general and they efficiently wiped out the opposition without hardly breaking a sweat. I wouldn't put money on anything at this point but that's the most logical place for him to be in my eyes.

[Byzantine279]

Demandred is NOT Taim, or any character that had been mentioned up until (KOD)?

 

Honestly this is a pointless thread, the guy wasn't even mentioned, not once, not even in the Glossary!

[Sid]

Rand mentions him in chapter 51, but that doesn't really tell us much

[Sharaman]

What about his alter-ego?

If he has one.

Somebody mentioned Sleete (intro TGS).

Somebody else suggested Yeoli (intro ToM).

Roedran of course, remains an eternal favourite (never onscreen).

Who knows, it may even be Alsalam since he doesn't actually feature earlier?

[Elan Tedronai]

disappointing wanker. Will meet his end in a disappointing fashion

[putts]

He, directly, isn't discussed but it seems aloof to think that his "cover character" isn't mentioned at all.

 

I would look at fairly large secondary characters who have had a lot of "screen time" but not any PoV where we would see his true form.

 

The wiki references King Reordan and Charlz Guybon. Both could fit. Guybon seems less likely but there is one thing going for him ... Elayne is one of the few main characters without a male channeler almost constantly around her. This means that a male Forsaken could hide himself well. With basically no Channelers in Caemlyn at all, he could travel around and do all sorts of manipulations from the shadows without notice. Still, if Demandred is somewhere "gathering an army" ... Guybon doesn't really fit. Reordan is a better fit there. But even though he controls Murandy, it's not a large country and you would think he'd need to build off other countries and it's hard to believe an army that large accumulating wouldn't get some notice.

 

I would put my stock into an army we already know about, that hasn't sworn fealty to the Dragon and then look for a person who we know a decent bit about but not someone who we've had a PoV from. So, some General of the Seanchan or something like that. I don't think it'd make for much of an addition to the plot if Demandred just popped out of the middle of nowhere with a huge army behind him.

[dwn]

I predict Demandred will die off screen and we never find out know who he was posing as, if anyone. It's a penance for all the nagging questions about who killed Asmodean.

 

-- dwn

[Guest Keith1412]

Chapter 40 who was the male channeller Grady detected brining trollocs through a portal stone to fight the whitecloaks. This trap was set up by Graendal with isam and the dreamspike given by Moridin. Would Moridin stoop to serving Graendal by being the male channeller? or is this assistance from a fellow male forsaken. Graendal has no association with the bt so who helped. Even though Grady said "whoever it is, they're not terribly strong" (Grady is on a close par to Rand) this "person leading this understood tactics" and had the strength to bring 50,000+ through portal stone by fists. Sorry first time posting.

[NetSlider]

Personally, I care about Demandred lees and less with every book. At this point the guy needs to show up in a Ferrari with some serious tail in order for me to even glance at him twice. Honey, I looked at the car, not the tail, I swear!!!

[Vexorian]

I think it's possible he is in control of the Seanchan mainland. In the 1st chapter it said "a murderer ruled openly in Seanar."

And it was said by Demandred that his rule was secure. Now around that time could be when he took full control over Saenar since Semi killed the Empress and all of her blood; so it could have worked out as far as timelines are cocerned. Also I'm pretty sure he would have had to murder some people here and there to take control. And it probably wasn't too hard to take control since Semi cleaned out of the Royal Blood people. And since he's a male channeler damane can't detect him and even if they did know he could channel it's not like they could collar him or anything.

It just doesn't seem too likely that he is somewhere else. Shara doesn't make sense since we havn't seen any of it all 13 books. The only other places he could be would be pulling strings at the BT or be in Murandy. But that just seems off since he also said he was preparing armies for war and I wouldn't say the BT was preparing for war from the ToM POV's... And Murandy just seems too insignificant...

 

And lets just say he was in control of the Seanchan across the ocean. And now he comes and attacks the Seanchan forces under Fortuana. Then after this Rand decides to help defeat Demandred. It would create a pretty good reason for Fortuana to finally get her head out of her ass and help fight the Shadow.

 

Just my two cents. :)

[Bridge]

Dude is not even mentioned in the book!

Maybe he is...the one who stool the Seanchean''s throne!

[Erunion]

It was stated in an interview that Taim is not Demandred. Therefore, TAIM IS NOT DEMANDRED.

 

However, it's quite possible that Demandred is another Ashaman in the Black Tower, controlling Taim.

 

Of all the options I've seen, I consider these three most likely -

Demandred is ruling Seanchan.

Demandred is in the BT as an Ashaman, pulling strings.

Demandred is ruling the blank in the blight, either an empire in the blight, or an empire through a portal stone in the blight. (Demandred therefore is responsible for the vast number of trollocs and the pointy-teethed red-veiled dudes. Probably a lot more, too.)

[Shmuel Goldberg]

There's really not many places where Demandred could be.

 

Let's, for the sake of this discussion assume that countries which have been pacified by Rand (meaning they are or will be present of the field of Pellenor Merillor) or by the Seanchan, is out of question. We're really only having time in the last book (i) to deal with the Black Tower, (ii) to unite Randland with Seanchan (shouldn't involve Forsaken), (iii) and possibly to visit Murandy where something might be brewing. Realistically, another Forsaken plot involving Arad Doman, Cairhien, Tear, Illian, Mayene, Tar Valon, Andor, Borderlands, Ghealdan, Amadicia, Tarabon, Ebou Dar, the Whitecloaks, the Sea Folk etc. seems unrealistic.

 

This excludes, obviously, straightforward attacks with large armies of the shadow such as what seems to be going on with Andor, and could happen with any other country as well.

 

At this point, I can see Demandred in three locations. (i) the Black Tower, (ii) the Blight, herding Trollocs through the ways, or (iii) Murandy.

 

1) Demandred at the Black Tower. Now, Taimandred has been shot down by the author, but it was a very popular theory because it was very well supported by hints and oddities. Maybe, the right answer is that Taim is the front figure, and Demandred works from behind the scenes, but still at the Black Tower (teaching Taim, which would explain many of the hints in support of Taimandred). New stuff which supports this theory from ToM: the Black Tower is obviously shielded by a dreamspike. Moridin had two, he gave one to Graendal, maybe he gave the other to Demandred at the Black Tower? Also, the 13+13 thing has finally surfaced at the Black Tower. Would Taim know this trick or would someone (Demandred?) have to teach him? On the other hand, maybe Moridin has actually been behind Taim and the Black Tower the whole time?

 

2) Demandred in the Blight directing Trolloc armies. We see the attack on Saldea which was orchestrated by someone who knew what he was doing. Demandred? Also, there was a male channeler bringing Trollocs against the Whitecloaks. Demandred? Alternatively, the first could have been managed by any of the Forsaken or Shaidar Haran, the second one could have been a random darkfriend from the Black Tower.

 

3) Demandred in Murandy. Nothing really new supporting this. The only mention is that Egwene, in her infinite wisdom, wrote a letter to the King of Murandy to ask for support at the Field of Merillor. If Roedran=Demandred, this was likely a very stupid thing to do. In other words, par for the course, really.

 

Conclusion: IMHO Taim had to be instructed somehow by an AoL male channeler to do some of the new things we see in ToM. Now, the only two left at this point are Moridin and Demandred. Moridin doesn't seem the type to expose himself in this way. So that would leave Demandred.

 

ETA: I just noticed the 'Demandred rules Seanchan' theory. Yes, it could be, and having Rand remove Demandred from the throne might just be the thing to turn Tuon around. However, this would likely require a visit to Seanchan (which has been excluded by the author). Also, the whole 'bow to the Seanchan empire' thing (not sure about the precise wording) seems to contradict this. Well, ok, it is a solid theory, but IMHO second to the 'Black Tower' theory.

[AutomatedTeller]

hard to believe that Demandred is either in Seanchan or at the BT, because Semirhage had the Seanchan and Osan'gar was undercover at the BT. I dunno - I don't see Demandred being backup or the 2nd guy in at either location - I do think Demandred has helped out at the BT, but I don't think that's his power base.

 

I'm still going with Roedran.

[gbuttsdc]

I'm still new to all this(just started the series a few months ago) and this is the first forum I've visited. So I guess I should do a little more research before throwing out theories that have already been disproven - esp. in interviews with the author. So no Taimandred as someone put it... Well for me that leaves seandar. True it was semirhage's, key word being was. I think her main goal was to throw that side of the world into chaos so they would be a nonfactor in the LB, once she was out Demy stepped in and took control. The way the emphasis was put on a "murderer" sitting on the throne lets you know some resolution will happen there. But again you've gotta look at what armies would be willing to fight for the DO. How about an army on the other side of the world that has no idea what's going on. How about an army who would kill themselves if their leader ordered it without pause. And I imagine it's a pretty large and powerful army. One Demandred would consider worthy of his command. No way was he the male channeler bringing in trollocs against the white cloaks. That was all Greandal's plan and he would never work for or even with her at this point. Murandy is kind of ridiculous, and Shara would be pretty anticlimactic as we have virtually no word of them through the entire series. Also, look what almost every other forsaken did - take over a powerful nation or empire...

 

Still think Taim is from the AOL though and not just Moridin in disguise. Wish I didn't have to wait over a year for these freaking answers...

[Bob T Dwarf]

It was stated in an interview that Taim is not Demandred. Therefore, TAIM IS NOT DEMANDRED.

 

 

For the umpteenth time. Jordan never said that.

 

What he said was, "Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim."

 

Semantically, and with Jordan in general and this quote in particular, you have to be extremely careful of the semantics of his statements, that is not the same as saying "Taim is not Demandred."

[didymos]

I really don't want him to be Taim, but right now thats what my gut tells me.

 

Oh, god. This is NEVER going to die. Not picking on you specifically, but I swear that even if we get a scene in the next book with Taim talking to Demandred and saying "So, I'm not you, and you're not me" and Demandred replying "You got that right. We're two entirely separate people", someone will still insist that it's evidence that TAIM IS DEMANDRED!!11!!one!!11!!!

[didymos]

It was stated in an interview that Taim is not Demandred. Therefore, TAIM IS NOT DEMANDRED.

 

For the umpteenth time. Jordan never said that.

 

For the umpteenth-plus-one time, yes he did. More than once, in fact:

 

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 16 January 2003, Dayton, OH - Matthew Julius reporting

 

Q: It's been said that you mentioned that Mazrim Taim is not Demandred. There seems to be some confusion on whether or not you said that.

RJ: Mazrim Taim is not Demandred.

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 16 January 2003, Dayton, OH - Tim Kington reporting

 

Q: Taim is clearly not Demandred, right?

RJ: (Disgusted) I've said that before, and it's not Taim, it's Ta-eeem.

Crossroads of Twilight Book Tour, Barnes and Noble signing NYC 7 January 2003 - WinespringBrother reporting

 

Q: Is Taim Demandred?

 

RJ: No, that is totally bogus.