The Seals - PROLOGUE SPOILERS ONLY

[Luckers]

Distinct lack of spoilers here. Craysh?

[jdbond]

It implies more like Callandor was present during LTT's time. Make sense too. You don't make cheap angreals and jump straight to Choden Kal.

[Sentinel78]

It implies more like Callandor was present during LTT's time. Make sense too. You don't make cheap angreals and jump straight to Choden Kal.

 

Well, you can mass produce cheap ones for the very high number of channelers, and with the CK you can't afford to screw up because it's so powerful. The War of Power was World War II, and the CK was its Manhattan Project. You don't put the type of effort into producing individual tanks and bombers as you do into the H-bomb.

[Craysh]

originally stated by Graendal in the Prologue to The Towers of Midnight

 

Even something the Creator had designed to be eternal could be unraveled using the Dark One’s energies.

 

Very simply, the TP has been wearing down the seals. Whether it's the result of direct channeling (such as Ishy channeling the TP at the seals while he was free) or simply being in the vicinity of those who channel the TP (which would explain why the ones Rand has would still be crumbling).

 

It's been speculated that it can be destroyed by TP, but I think that quote kind of proves the point.

 

I would suspect it is more along the lines of changing it to something else rather than actually destroying it.

I'm fairly sure they tested it and they said it was still cuendillar.

[firstfishman]

So, is it the seals that get weakened by the TP, or all cuendillar?

 

If it is just the seals, I say it has nothing to do with the fact that they are cuendillar.

 

If its the fact that they are cuendillar, then why bother taking down the harbor chain at the white tower? It will just weaken in time and anyone can smash it down.

 

 

 

Or maybe it was a "flaw" as stated earier.

[Zyntras]

heartstone discs =! seals of the DO prison

 

they are only a focuspoint for the power to be directed to the prison so to speak...

 

and no i dont no what i want to say with this other then => TP vs heartston => irrelevant ... remember, the focus found in tEoTW was broken alrdy. :o and well... not much TP in its vicinity ;p it was kind of sealed away

[Sentinel78]

It's been speculated that it can be destroyed by TP, but I think that quote kind of proves the point.

 

The point was proven when BS said explicitly that TP can destroy heartstone. This isn't really a ToM prologue spoiler, he told us this back when tGS came out. Graendal's recognition of the general nature of the TP destroying the Pattern is cumulative.

 

I happen to agree that the seals have been weakening, slowly, throughout the 3rd Age by the Dark One, or TP, pushing against the focal point of the 7-seals. When Nynaeve sensed evil in the seal in FoH I think the Dark One's attention just happened to be at the point where that particular seal was holding him back.

[Seazo]

Rand also mentions that he can almost sense a miasma of evil near the wagon that had the barrels that contained the seals and rand had the feeling that evil seemed to be coming from those barrels. So I'm guessing that feeling wasn't there prior to the seal nyneave was carrying broke. Now that, that seal was broken the DO us directly working on breaking one of the 2 seals in the barrel once that one is broken I think the DO will focus on the next seal behind that one so to speak. But that is just my opinion.

[Corvinus]

Well I kinda figured that Ishamael was responsible for the seals weakening since I have always wondered why he didn't get punished like other Forsaken for his failures, such as failing to capture or kill Rand, and even getting himself killed in the process. He probably figured out a long time ago how to weaken the seals, but I think he also needs the Dragon to be present to completely release the DO from his prison.

 

BTW, as said above, the seals are focus poinst for the barrier that keeps the DO imprisoned. A shield that keeps a channeler from using the One Power also has focus points depending on the number of people maintaining the shield. Think on that for a while.

[ladyofthelake]

Callandor is made of light. As such, it should be able to touch the DO to seal him in without getting tainted. Also, Alivia is supposed to be really strong and will help Rand die so I would guess she would be one of the two women to use callandor with Rand. LTT said he could not use callandor before because the women would not help. I wonder if that's in the secret histories.

[mossman87]

Callandor is made of light. As such, it should be able to touch the DO to seal him in without getting tainted. Also, Alivia is supposed to be really strong and will help Rand die so I would guess she would be one of the two women to use callandor with Rand. LTT said he could not use callandor before because the women would not help. I wonder if that's in the secret histories.

 

Callandor is made of light? buh?

[jdbond]

Callandor is made of light. As such, it should be able to touch the DO to seal him in without getting tainted. Also, Alivia is supposed to be really strong and will help Rand die so I would guess she would be one of the two women to use callandor with Rand. LTT said he could not use callandor before because the women would not help. I wonder if that's in the secret histories.

 

Don't go towards the light, Lady!

[Suttree]

Callandor is made of light. As such, it should be able to touch the DO to seal him in without getting tainted. Also, Alivia is supposed to be really strong and will help Rand die so I would guess she would be one of the two women to use callandor with Rand. LTT said he could not use callandor before because the women would not help. I wonder if that's in the secret histories.

 

 

What? It's a crystal sword, not sure where you got the "made of light" from? Yes is tied to the Dragon Reborn but it's just a sa'angreal with a manufacturing flaw.

[Shadowpat]

I think Rand will will use the TP to re-seal the bore. LTT said specifically the original flaw in his plan was that the saidin weaves he and Hundred Companions used had to be tied and something had to touch the DO which was why saidin got tainted. RJ was specific about the fact that saidar and saidin would both have been tainted if LTT original plan was followed through with. Using the TP would be the only way to tie the weaves off. Even if the TP originates from him it doesn't mean he has complete control over it if someone else is using it.

[sdboka]

I too do believe that Rand will use TP to re-seal the bore or at least make some kind of a ter'angreal using TP as a focal point of his power to re-seal the bore. Although BS explicitly said that TP can unravel one such as the heartstone he did not mention that OP can unravel a ter'angreal or some kind of heartstone made from TP. Does not work the other way around I guess. But since someone really made a point that if The Dark One IS the source of TP, wouldnt it be stupid for him to not be able to unravel things made out of TP?

 

Then with that said, I came to think about the "other" evil lurking in the Blight. I have a feeling that Mashadar or Padan Fain (or Thing if you prefer) would have something to do at the end to prevent the DO from touching Randland once and for all. I'm imagining Mashadar would act like a protective layer in which the DO cannot unravel using TP.

 

DO || Mashadar || Heartstone made of TP || Randland

 

Something like that. What do you think?

[jemron]

I too do believe that Rand will use TP to re-seal the bore or at least make some kind of a ter'angreal using TP as a focal point of his power to re-seal the bore. Although BS explicitly said that TP can unravel one such as the heartstone he did not mention that OP can unravel a ter'angreal or some kind of heartstone made from TP. Does not work the other way around I guess. But since someone really made a point that if The Dark One IS the source of TP, wouldnt it be stupid for him to not be able to unravel things made out of TP?

 

Then with that said, I came to think about the "other" evil lurking in the Blight. I have a feeling that Mashadar or Padan Fain (or Thing if you prefer) would have something to do at the end to prevent the DO from touching Randland once and for all. I'm imagining Mashadar would act like a protective layer in which the DO cannot unravel using TP.

 

DO || Mashadar || Heartstone made of TP || Randland

 

Something like that. What do you think?

 

I think that one of the problems that we have is that we all assume Rand will be the one to re-seal the DO's prison. I'm betting on the Creator making an appearance. Rand, as has been often stated, is NOT the Creator.

[Cyf]

I think that one of the problems that we have is that we all assume Rand will be the one to re-seal the DO's prison. I'm betting on the Creator making an appearance. Rand, as has been often stated, is NOT the Creator.

 

I don't think the Creator will. This goes against Jordan's cosmology. The Creator does not step in and fix things. He put stuff into the Wheel to fix itself. :)

[jdbond]

I too do believe that Rand will use TP to re-seal the bore or at least make some kind of a ter'angreal using TP as a focal point of his power to re-seal the bore. Although BS explicitly said that TP can unravel one such as the heartstone he did not mention that OP can unravel a ter'angreal or some kind of heartstone made from TP. Does not work the other way around I guess. But since someone really made a point that if The Dark One IS the source of TP, wouldnt it be stupid for him to not be able to unravel things made out of TP?

 

Then with that said, I came to think about the "other" evil lurking in the Blight. I have a feeling that Mashadar or Padan Fain (or Thing if you prefer) would have something to do at the end to prevent the DO from touching Randland once and for all. I'm imagining Mashadar would act like a protective layer in which the DO cannot unravel using TP.

 

DO || Mashadar || Heartstone made of TP || Randland

 

Something like that. What do you think?

 

I think that one of the problems that we have is that we all assume Rand will be the one to re-seal the DO's prison. I'm betting on the Creator making an appearance. Rand, as has been often stated, is NOT the Creator.

 

Bad bet. Creator doesn't care what happens to this world. It's all in the books man!! It's not something we are just making up..

[Shadowpat]

I too do believe that Rand will use TP to re-seal the bore or at least make some kind of a ter'angreal using TP as a focal point of his power to re-seal the bore. Although BS explicitly said that TP can unravel one such as the heartstone he did not mention that OP can unravel a ter'angreal or some kind of heartstone made from TP. Does not work the other way around I guess. But since someone really made a point that if The Dark One IS the source of TP, wouldnt it be stupid for him to not be able to unravel things made out of TP?

 

Then with that said, I came to think about the "other" evil lurking in the Blight. I have a feeling that Mashadar or Padan Fain (or Thing if you prefer) would have something to do at the end to prevent the DO from touching Randland once and for all. I'm imagining Mashadar would act like a protective layer in which the DO cannot unravel using TP.

 

DO || Mashadar || Heartstone made of TP || Randland

 

Something like that. What do you think?

 

Just because the TP comes from the DO doesn't necessarily mean he has full control over everything that is done with it. He could limit access to it but that might be as far as that control extends. Has it been stated anywhere in the books that someone can undo the weaves of another channeler, whether using the OP or TP?

[sdboka]

But take note that DO and The Creator are not just another channeler. We haven't seen any real display of power from both.

[drimid]

Many people seem to believe that Rand will use the TP to re-seal the DO. However, the TP is not available to everyone that wishes to use it. Graendal makes it clear in the prologue that the ability to channel the TP is given to someone by the DO(and maybe the Nae'blis as well). Rand channeling the TP in tGS served the DO in getting the dragon reborn even closer to turning to the shadow, or whatever plan the DO had at the moment. Semirhage is clearly shocked by his ability to channel the TP: " Semirhage looked utterly shocked."But...that's impossible..." she said. "I felt nothing. You can't-" She looked up, staring at him with wide eyes. "The True Power. Why have you betrayed me, Great Lord? Why?"

Rand would not be able to use the TP to "harm" the DO.

 

There is of course the theory that Rand gained access to the TP not by the DO himself, but through his link with Moridin. Even if that is the case, don't you think the DO would prefer to cut off Moridin from the TP(and thus, Rand as well) than having the Dragon trap him in his prison for yet another turn of the Wheel?

 

I still believe that Rand was given access to the TP by the DO himself, and that the DO used Semirhage to trap Rand into using it. It has been made quite clear to us by now that he prefers to have the Dragon on his side rather than killing him.

[subwoofer]

just checking to see if ass becomes tushy here.

 

Woof™.

[Mendeleev]

Many people seem to believe that Rand will use the TP to re-seal the DO. However, the TP is not available to everyone that wishes to use it. Graendal makes it clear in the prologue that the ability to channel the TP is given to someone by the DO(and maybe the Nae'blis as well). Rand channeling the TP in tGS served the DO in getting the dragon reborn even closer to turning to the shadow, or whatever plan the DO had at the moment. Semirhage is clearly shocked by his ability to channel the TP: " Semirhage looked utterly shocked."But...that's impossible..." she said. "I felt nothing. You can't-" She looked up, staring at him with wide eyes. "The True Power. Why have you betrayed me, Great Lord? Why?"

Rand would not be able to use the TP to "harm" the DO.

 

There is of course the theory that Rand gained access to the TP not by the DO himself, but through his link with Moridin. Even if that is the case, don't you think the DO would prefer to cut off Moridin from the TP(and thus, Rand as well) than having the Dragon trap him in his prison for yet another turn of the Wheel?

 

I still believe that Rand was given access to the TP by the DO himself, and that the DO used Semirhage to trap Rand into using it. It has been made quite clear to us by now that he prefers to have the Dragon on his side rather than killing him.

I assumed he could channel the TP because of his connection with Moridin.

[Shadowpat]

I'm thinking Rand can channel the TP thru Moridin and because that link was formed by 'crossing the streams' of Balefire and the DO can't do a damned thing about it, even if he knows that Rand is channeling it (which I don't believe he does as it would appear that Moridin is channeling it).

The one thing that is odd to me is the fact that when Rand reached out to the TP LTT knew immediately what it was. Any theories on that?

[Cyf]

It was channeled a lot during the War of Power. I would presume LTT knew about it from fighting the forces of the Dark One for so long. It wasn't till the end of the WoP/Now that the True Power was focused on only a few people, according to the books.