The Life and Times of An Aes Sedai

[Kaznen]

Another sign of their arrogance is the whole refusal to learn any types of self defense. Frankly even if I could channel, I would still want to know how to defend myself. You never know when you'll be without the ability to channel. How many times have the Supergirls been in trouble, where they could have used a knowledge of martial arts?

But that's why they have warders

 

But, your are right. In NS Mo could have used some basic self defense skills even before her showdown with the Black sister. It would help them move through the world and not reveal themselves because they could use basic self defense to get out of most problems, saving the OP for the truly important stuff, like stain removal.

[SpiritElement]

Has anyone else noticed a discrepancy with a particular Aes Sedai habit. They are sworn on the Oath Rod never to lie, but then give false names, surely that should count?

[Shard]

Has anyone else noticed a discrepancy with a particular Aes Sedai habit. They are sworn on the Oath Rod never to lie, but then give false names, surely that should count?

 

Ah but you have to see how they say it, they never say that is their name. Like with Moraine and Alys, she says "You can call me Alys" she never said that was her name, just that's what you can call her.

 

It's like telling someone to call you Doctor, Lady, Mister, Sir, etc.

[yoniy0]

Sure, but it's also very obvious. "Please call my Alys" would do much better, I think.

[SpiritElement]

Has anyone else noticed a discrepancy with a particular Aes Sedai habit. They are sworn on the Oath Rod never to lie, but then give false names, surely that should count?

 

Ah but you have to see how they say it, they never say that is their name. Like with Moraine and Alys, she says "You can call me Alys" she never said that was her name, just that's what you can call her.

 

It's like telling someone to call you Doctor, Lady, Mister, Sir, etc.

 

Fair point, hadn't considered that they might twist the words for something as simple as their name.

[Kaznen]

Another sign of their arrogance is the whole refusal to learn any types of self defense. Frankly even if I could channel, I would still want to know how to defend myself. You never know when you'll be without the ability to channel. How many times have the Supergirls been in trouble, where they could have used a knowledge of martial arts?

But that's why they have warders

 

But, your are right. In NS Mo could have used some basic self defense skills even before her showdown with the Black sister. It would help them move through the world and not reveal themselves because they could use basic self defense to get out of most problems, saving the OP for the truly important stuff, like stain removal.

It feels weird replying to my own post another group of channelers are taught basic self defense, the Asha'man, it has been shown how even without the OP a AM is not helpless, they can channel like AS, use a sword like a warder, and fight unarmed like an Aiel. At least the ones who follows Rand's dogma can.

[AutomatedTeller]

well, I don't really have any problem with them not learning self-defense. I mean, lot's of people don't bother with that.

 

I doubt that most of the governor's, senators or congressmen in America know self-defense, for instance.

 

I do completely agree about the stupidity of there being no Greens in the borderlands - really, I'd think that 2 or 3 greens and a yellow in the capitol would be nearly mandatory year round, with more in the spring. They could rotate yearly, I suppose, if it's unpopular.

 

I never really understood what the purpose of the White Ajah was. What do they DO? Sit around and toss logic problems at each other? I mean - talk about useless...

[David Selig]

Excellent thread. I pretty much agree with everything in the opening post. It all stems from the fact that the Aes Sedai put far more effort into indoctrinating the trainees to maintain the status quo and preserving the appearance of the Aes Sedai as all knowing and mysterious than in trying to improve things in any way. Their system is great in producing new Aes Sedai, who look competent and capable, but in fact are nothing of the kind, and are so trained into just repeating old techniques and teachings they very rarely try anything new.

 

I just want to expand a bit on their system of determining precedence. It's ridiculous and really detrimental for their organisation. The strongest in the One Power get to lead, even if they are idiots, and if you are weak, nobody will listen to you even if you are a genius. It doesn't make any sense, especially considering that the vast majority of what the Aes Sedai actually do most of the time has nothing to do with the Power. They are mostly politicians, mediators and scholars. Let's take two hypothetical Greys for example - why should a sister who's weak in the Power, but has excellent political skills, is really charismatic and a smooth talker who has plenty of empathy and understanding of the both sides in every argument, has to defer to another who is a mediocre mediator but is strong in the One Power?

[username13]

I never really understood what the purpose of the White Ajah was. What do they DO? Sit around and toss logic problems at each other? I mean - talk about useless...

 

Whites are supposed to be for all things logic. This'll include mathematics and sciences, which will be useful in places such as Rands academy, however, like everything the Aes Sedai themselves stuff it all up

[Darth Krewl]

Excellent thread.

 

I just want to expand a bit on their system of determining precedence. It's ridiculous and really detrimental for their organisation. The strongest in the One Power get to lead, even if they are idiots, and if you are weak, nobody will listen to you even if you are a genius.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

The only point I disagree with is that Egwene will make it a much better future for the Aes Sedai. She has a few advantages over other Amyrlins (like spending time in training with the Wise Ones) but some of her decisions concerning Rand, for instance, are just as bad, narrow-minded and self-assuming as those of any other Aes Sedai. "That ignorant sheepherder whom I have to guide because I know better than him."?

 

It's quite clear that Egwene was far more mature, bolder, braver and much more precocious than Rand, when the Emond's Fielders left the Two Rivers at the beginning of the story. But she'd have to be extremely stupid not to realize that, just like her, Rand has done a lot of growing up since then. As the Amyrlin, counting with access to all eyes and ears, Egwene should know of Rand's exploits and, if she was truly wise, she should understand and accept that Rand's capable of stuff that she can only dream of. He is the Dragon Reborn, after all. And the Karaethon Cycle is the Prophecies of the Dragon, not of whomever happened to be leading the Aes Sedai at the time of the Dragon's rebirth and Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Therefore, a real change to the Aes Sedai should be Egwene swallowing her pride and understanding that the White Tower must rally around Rand and not the other way around. Much less, should she even consider challenging his authority. Questioning him? Sure. But not challenging him. The time when the WT was the power behind thrones is past. Now, it is the Dragon Reborn to whom monarchs bend knee and this has been clearly established by this point in the series.

 

To be totally honest, the only changes I've seen this girl consider is opening up the White Tower to older women, Aiel and Sea Folk wilders to increase their dwindling numbers and nothing more. When has she ever considered, even for a second, to open up the Tower's doors to male channelers? Now, IMO, that would be bringing about real change and progress towards a better future for the "Servants of All". Otherwise, I've yet to see Egwene bringing any really bold new ideas that may improve the order of the Aes Sedai.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

When has she ever considered, even for a second, to open up the Tower's doors to male channelers?quote]

 

Do the male channellers even WANT that to happen?

[Darth Krewl]

When has she ever considered, even for a second, to open up the Tower's doors to male channelers?

 

Do the male channellers even WANT that to happen?

 

Could you blame them, if they didn't want that to happen, when your biggest representative was deceived, put in a cage and beaten? What has Egwene done in order to right the wrong done to Rand by Elaida?

 

Never mind them being different people. Both women represent the same station. And any good leader should know how to make amends and right the wrongs of the nation/organization they represent. Any good leader should make it publicly known where they stand, concerning predecessor's views and offer a public statement to address the issue.

 

Especially, when you disagree with such views and understand that your predecessor was completely wrong. Otherwise, what you're saying is that your agenda remains in the same course as your predecessor's and that you support his/her views.

 

Haven't seen Egwene issue a public apology to Rand for what was done to him, which is what the situation demands. Especially, so close to Tarmon Gai'don, when the two sexes will have to place their trust and lives in the hands of the others, whether they like it or not. A smart leader would be trying to making amends ASAP, whether she wants to work side by side with male channelers in the long run or not.

 

Besides, whether the male channelers want to join the White Tower or not, a woman in Egwene's position has got to put prejudice behind and do the right thing. It's not up to her to decide whether the men join or not. She should at least consider it because, now that the taint's been cleansed, it's the right thing to do. Simple as that.

[Kaznen]

bump, because it is that awesome and people need to read it.

[dscott8]

And any good leader should know how to make amends and right the wrongs of the nation/organization they represent. Any good leader should make it publicly known where they stand, concerning predecessor's views and offer a public statement to address the issue.

 

Especially, when you disagree with such views and understand that your predecessor was completely wrong. Otherwise, what you're saying is that your agenda remains in the same course as your predecessor's and that you support his/her views.

 

Then why hasn't Obama gotten us out of the Middle East?

 

Seriously, you have a MAJOR point. Now that saidin is clean, the White Tower is going to have to work with male channelers. Egwene is full of plans to tie ALL WOMEN who can channel to the Tower -- Wise Ones, Windfinders, Kin, and possibly the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders -- but she's still not seeing the Black Tower as anything but a threat/problem. Her administration's only action toward it is sending women to bond Asha'man, and that's mostly to get some vaguely-defined handle on them in return for Asha'man bonding Sisters. Not only is she slighting half or more of the available channeling power available for the Last Battle, she's not looking beyond that battle.

[Darth Krewl]

Then why hasn't Obama gotten us out of the Middle East?

 

LOL...great question! But, IDK...I'm not even a citizen of the US, so I guess I wouldn't even be qualified to answer it, though.

 

Seriously, you have a MAJOR point. Now that saidin is clean, the White Tower is going to have to work with male channelers. Egwene is full of plans to tie ALL WOMEN who can channel to the Tower -- Wise Ones, Windfinders, Kin, and possibly the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders -- but she's still not seeing the Black Tower as anything but a threat/problem. Her administration's only action toward it is sending women to bond Asha'man, and that's mostly to get some vaguely-defined handle on them in return for Asha'man bonding Sisters. Not only is she slighting half or more of the available channeling power available for the Last Battle, she's not looking beyond that battle.

 

Thanks, though you also make a great point, IMO. I understand that Logain and his charges were wrong to have bonded sisters against their will but, I agree 100% w/you: other than bonding Asha'man as Warders, the Aes Sedai are overlooking the potentials of the balance that working hand in hand with the males (as equals) would provide for everyone concerned. Plus they have to do it, if they want to win the Last Battle, I would think. Not to mention to continue looking at male channelers as something less than their equals, which IMO, is ridiculous, of course.

[ironisles]

I am doing a re-read to get ready for the last book, and Crossroads was my last one I actually read (or skimmed through but that's another story.) So Egwene is the Headcheese now.. is she reforming or falling into the same AS trap Lucker's has pointed out in his wonderful post?

[DemandredFO]

The thing is, you can't be infallible if you apologize. The Tower presents itself as infallible, individuals, i.e. Moiraine apologize but that's it.

As to the last question, I believe Egwene is falling into the trap. She needs people who don't bow and scrape to her. Nyneave probably could help but Egwene too busy getting off on bullying her. Bryne, Gawyn, Elayne, some others could help, but despite what she said about wanting friends, she doesn't. This is exemplified by her treatment of Suian, Gawyn and Bryne when they rescue her.

[Suttree]

I am doing a re-read to get ready for the last book, and Crossroads was my last one I actually read (or skimmed through but that's another story.) So Egwene is the Headcheese now.. is she reforming or falling into the same AS trap Lucker's has pointed out in his wonderful post?

 

From the internal thoughts we get in TGS and ToM it seems as if she knows the AS need to change. She mourns the state of the WT and is starting to reform with the WO and WF exchange program.

 

ToM "An Invitation"

If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title.

[WhiskyJack]

Wheel weaves as the wheel wills.

[ironisles]

Wheel weaves as the wheel wills.

 

 

AAAARGH!

[AltonJakeStorey]

Their foolishness with Rand is the biggest example of how arrogant the WT has become. They think of the WT as a Blademaster, and the Dragon-Reborn as a sword that THEY will use to defeat the DO. "We must guide him", etc... But they have failed to understand WHY Rand is so essential to TG. Let's look at deferent reasons some might think he is so important.

 

1) He is so powerful with the OP. The problem is that he isn't the only one that powerful. LTT was one of two people that powerful (The betrayer of hope being the other) in his time; but there were almost definitely more before his time. So, if it were about power then ANY of them could have been spun out by the pattern to fight TG. But the prophecies are clear that LTT born again is what is needed.

 

2) He is Ta'veren. The problem is, that's not how Ta'veren works. One isn't pivotal in the pattern because one is Ta'veren, one is Ta'veren because one is pivotal. So, Rand isn't critical for TG because he is Ta'veren; he is Ta'veren because he is critical for TG.

 

3) He is a great leader. The problem is he isn't. He isn't a BAD leader, but he isn't amazing. People follow Mat because they respect his genius and luck. People follow Perrin because they respect HIM. People follow Rand because they have to/are afraid not to.

 

4) He is a great Warrior. Many Aeil are greater, Lan is greater, Galad/Gawyn MAY be greater, I think Mat is better (though that my just be my bias).

 

5) He is different (in the head). He thinks different then others, will do what no one else will do, will try what others say can't be done, and will not balk at what others wouldn't even seriously consider an option. He will see through the deception and find the way to defeat the DO, when others will just look for a big stick (like the AoL AS making the Choedon Kal). This is the true reason.

 

As I said, the AS think they are the Blademaster that will use the Sword that is the DragonReborn. They are wrong. Rand is the blade master who will use the whole world as his weapon.

[condonmc]

" You will NOT raise your voice to the Dragon Reborn"! Take that miss top tower girl...

[AltonJakeStorey]

Then why hasn't Obama gotten us out of the Middle East?

 

LOL...great question! But, IDK...I'm not even a citizen of the US, so I guess I wouldn't even be qualified to answer it, though.

 

Seriously, you have a MAJOR point. Now that saidin is clean, the White Tower is going to have to work with male channelers. Egwene is full of plans to tie ALL WOMEN who can channel to the Tower -- Wise Ones, Windfinders, Kin, and possibly the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders -- but she's still not seeing the Black Tower as anything but a threat/problem. Her administration's only action toward it is sending women to bond Asha'man, and that's mostly to get some vaguely-defined handle on them in return for Asha'man bonding Sisters. Not only is she slighting half or more of the available channeling power available for the Last Battle, she's not looking beyond that battle.

 

Thanks, though you also make a great point, IMO. I understand that Logain and his charges were wrong to have bonded sisters against their will but, I agree 100% w/you: other than bonding Asha'man as Warders, the Aes Sedai are overlooking the potentials of the balance that working hand in hand with the males (as equals) would provide for everyone concerned. Plus they have to do it, if they want to win the Last Battle, I would think. Not to mention to continue looking at male channelers as something less than their equals, which IMO, is ridiculous, of course.

 

I disagree, Logain and the others were NOT wrong to bond them at all. They were commanded not to fight/harm/kill AS, and 51 sisters were comming to gentle them, so they did what they could to stop them without fighting/harming/killing them. They bonded them.

[Suttree]

I disagree, Logain and the others were NOT wrong to bond them at all. They were commanded not to fight/harm/kill AS, and 51 sisters were comming to gentle them, so they did what they could to stop them without fighting/harming/killing them. They bonded them.

 

Not did Elaida send them to gentle them(which was their job to be fair, the taint hadn't been cleansed) but she also ordered them to kill them all. In the face of this the Ashaman also added the "extra bit" to the bond to compel obedience. Given the circumstances it is understandable but not really a long term solution.

[ShenAnCalhar]

The White Ajah: that Ajah that occasionally throws the word "logically" into their speech before saying something that's basic common sense. As far as I can tell that's pretty much the extent of their responsibilities...