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#8541 mb

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:48 PM

Memory of Light spoilers are not allowed in this thread; the thread title contains "No AMOL Spoilers".

 

About the Pattern planning this series; I am not sure.  If the Pattern could plan, the planned events could include predictions; not sure about the planned events including non-predicted events.


Matthew 28:19-20
I Kings 18:21
Romans 1:16
Philippians 4:6-7

#8542 EmperorAllspice

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:35 PM

The pattern doesn't make you good at your job or not, if you are incompetent its not the patterns fault. 

Spoiler

Only way off hand I can think of her being really beneficial to the light was when she was captured. But in the end like when I mentioned once how the plan to trap Rand in Tear seemed needlessly complicated and elaborate.  I was told that's how RJ wrote it and if they just appeared by Rand and killed him it would be a very short series.  So I doubt the pattern was ruining moghi's plans and schemes.  She attempted some things like I am pretty sure it was her that impersonated Sam to send trollocs after Rand but her biggest failing is she was a coward.

 
Mog was not inept. She seemed quite intelligent and cunning based on everything I see her doing in the series. Her being a coward is what gave her her power in a way. It made her cautious and careful in a lot of respects.
 
And the Pattern not screwing with her? She would've killed Nynaeve but pigeons threw her aim off the second she fired. The timing meant that HAD to have been the pattern. She also led to Birgitte becoming Elayne's warder by bringing her out of the world of dreams. I considered that a pretty awesome moment for her though. Especially considering she had just been hit with an arrow at the time.

Edited by BFG, 25 August 2014 - 12:25 PM.
amol spoiler in quote

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#8543 Sabio

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:02 AM

The point I was trying to make is sure some things are planned, hence the prophecies, the pattern forcing ta'vern into certain actions and deeds etc.  The pigeons flying up could of been a result of the pattern.  But if everything that happened was planned by the pattern then there would be no free will.  Every thing that happens isn't the pattern interceding.  Hence why Moraine told Rand he had to be careful if he died that's it.  Her being a coward I would say added to her survival but it also meant if she thought there was any risk to her she would bail on a plan quickly if She thought she could get away with it.  Like at the cleansing she wasn't going to lift a finger to help the others go after Rand.  I consider the Brigette moment not planned by the pattern since Brigitte broke the rules about helping people when the heroes are waiting in the world of dreams.  So for me Brigette getting spun out and becoming Elayne's warder wasn't the work of the pattern but the consequences of her using free will.


Edited by Sabio, 23 August 2014 - 12:49 PM.


#8544 mb

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

Actually, Birgitte was ripped out; not spun out.  spun out would have been if she came out as a fetus.


Matthew 28:19-20
I Kings 18:21
Romans 1:16
Philippians 4:6-7

#8545 Roseofcamelyn

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

Does Brandon Sanderson ever tell us who actually killed Asmodean? I've been a Wot fan for ages,  but I honestly didn't care for the last few books and I have no plans to trudge through A Memory of Light ( No offense if you liked it, I just kind of think the Wheel of Time series went down hill towards the end, just my opinion). Anyway, I've read a few summaries just to find out what happened in the final book, but they don't seem to mention Asmodean's killer? Or did RJ/Sanderson mention it a while back?



#8546 mb

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:18 PM

There is a thread in the structured section that discusses his killer.  That thread contains at least most of what both authors told about his death & his killer; and at least most content related to the subject.


Matthew 28:19-20
I Kings 18:21
Romans 1:16
Philippians 4:6-7

#8547 Sabio

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:43 PM

@Rose, In the glossary in TOM it states under Graendal:  A ruthless killer; she as responsible for the deaths of Asan'gar, Asmodean, and for the destruction of Mesaana. 



#8548 Finnssss

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:59 PM



@Rose, In the glossary in TOM it states under Graendal:  A ruthless killer; she as responsible for the deaths of Asan'gar, Asmodean, and for the destruction of Mesaana. 

 

Before you even get to the glossary it is revealed in the Epilogue by Shaidar Haran. He holds her directly responsible in the deaths of 3 Chosen including Mesaana. We know one of the others was Aran'gar and by process of elimination we are left with Asmodean as the 3rd.

 

Dead Forsaken are:

 

Aginor/Osan'gar

Be'lal

Rahvin

Semirhage

Sammael

Balthamel/Aran'gar

Mesaana

Asmodean


Edited by Finnssss, 23 August 2014 - 07:04 PM.

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#8549 Roseofcamelyn

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:36 PM

Yeah, Graendal always seemed the likely canidate but RJ never said it straight out. Thanks.



#8550 Sabio

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:54 PM

Took me until  AMOL came out when I did a reread of TOM and casually flipped through the glossary to even notice it was there, I stopped paying attention to the glossaries after Lord of Chaos.  RJ and even BS are good for giving the information but never directly saying it in the book.



#8551 mb

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:40 PM

the exact words were these::

 

"Mesaana has fallen," Shaidar Haran whispered. "Three Chosen, destroyed by your actions. The design builds, a lattice of failure, a framework of incompetence."

emphasis mine.

Mesaana I take still lives.  if death, "died" & "killed" I take would have replaced "fallen" & "destroyed"; respectively.  and if death, I take it would have been revealed in Egwene's & Gawyn's discussion right after the fight.


Matthew 28:19-20
I Kings 18:21
Romans 1:16
Philippians 4:6-7

#8552 Pinzarn

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:49 AM

Yeah, Graendal always seemed the likely canidate but RJ never said it straight out. Thanks.

 

I thought RJ made a comment that the Sherlock Holmes/Watson discussion on the killer was pretty much on track.



#8553 Suttree

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 02:47 PM

 

Yeah, Graendal always seemed the likely canidate but RJ never said it straight out. Thanks.

 

I thought RJ made a comment that the Sherlock Holmes/Watson discussion on the killer was pretty much on track.

 

 

He did. The Sherlock Holmes scenario hit the nail on the head per RJ.


Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize, and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete wast of time. That is what I choose to do with my life." - Miki Dora

 


 


#8554 mb

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

That Sherlock Holmes article to me seems to be entirely fanfiction; both notes seem to be from the name that the page has at the top (currently Lorendiac).


Matthew 28:19-20
I Kings 18:21
Romans 1:16
Philippians 4:6-7