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Reading LOC (for the first time)


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#1 chris777

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 11:52 AM

I seen someone else do this, and thought it would be a good idea to get my thoughts down, and see if other ppl had similiar thoughts, or what they think of mine here...should done this from book1 so i could laugh at my previous theories =)  Anyways...

So far i've really liked the series.  It was GREAT until book5, which i had to PUSH through.  So much about Nyneave and Elayne, and all the girls.  Sure it was fun to see them fight Mogdien.  (Forgive all my spelling errors, these names are hard to spell!)  But Nyneave personality BUGS ME SO MUCH.  As bad as it sounds, I really wish they would kill her off, but it's obvious she will become the strongest Female ever to have lived...since she can already 1v1 a Forsaken.  The whole women think men are just stupid good for nothing but having babies with

Be forewarned, I am a slow reader.  Not nearly as fast as the other guys thread!

Just finished through Chapter 3.  Damn that was a long prologue.
So after a previous post here(about the forsaken) i've come to the conclusion that AGINOR and BALTHAMEL are the 2 resurected forsaken.  Why one of them appears to be in a female body i don't know.  And which source he/she would touch, Saiden or Saidar...dunno either.

-Mazrim Taim appears to be almost as strong as Rand?!  And Rand is practically stronger then most Forsaken?  He was completely even with Asmodean.  That is interesting.
-I liked how Taim was all proud he knew how to test and rand didn't, then rand was just like...Ya i figured it out the first time you did it, was pretty simple...bye.
-Why is Lews Therin saying to kill everyone?!  Wasn't he one of the few GOOD GUYS?  Is he just MAD...crazy?  So distraught by Ilyena that he'd rather kill everything and everyone again including himself and be done w/it.  When will Rand turn into LTT?  I'm guessing something will spark Rand into completely becoming LTT for a short while, during a battle when he is taunting another Forsaken or something?
-How does Morgase not hear about Rand and the rumor of her death already?  And I hope she realizes Rand isn't as crazy and ppl are making him out to be, and she can just go back home.  The reason why she couldn't go home is gone, so at least TRY!
-I like Pedron Niall.  His motives are pure...he is the same as Rand, doing what he thinks is right, by whatever means nessesary.  Seems that way atm anyways...But i do hope Rand battles the Children and just whoops them, wipes them out.  Maybe converts Pedron to be a General is his army vs the DarkOne.

K back to reading.

#2 chris777

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:19 AM

First of all, if anyone have an exact TimeLine of Mat since leaving 2rivers, and now in LOC...please post it.  I am curious.

On Chapter 6 now.
Them Aiel women acting like Rand's mom.  Go tell them to FRIG OFF, Rand!  haha.  And he should offer to wash Aviendha's hair?  OH WAIT thats TOO FORWARD?  They already had SEX!  These ppl are weird...  Can't wait til Elayne, Min, and Aviendha get in the same room with Rand.  Is he really going to have 3 wives?  That would be weird.  So far I'm rooting for Min w/out a doubt.  Aviendha is mean.  Elayne seems a confused little girl, and dating a Queen/Princess...screw that.
Reading now about Mat, asking everyone who the Priestess of the Nine Moons is...Which is weird because..isn't that what they call their RULER/QUEEN in Seanchan land?  Pretty sure I read that somewhere in here.  I thought it was Lanfear at first, she has a nickname having to do w/the moon right?
I imagine the White Tower escorts will arrive to Rand soon.  Stupid Shaido will try and kill him, but that obviously won't happen...My guess?
Shaido will end up fighting for Illian.  While the White tower combines maybe before or after, with the 'other white tower' women and their army and joins Rand.
Do we know of an exact # as to how big of an Army Rand now commands vs how big the Shaido is vs how big Illian's army is?

Not a whole lot has happened so far, I assume it'll pick up pace soon...I hope

#3 Emez Vatsetek

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:04 PM

i'm reading through the series for the first time as well. I'm on book 7 now. anyways, the book might not move as fast as you want it to, but losts of interesting stuff does happen. i would say just keep on with it.

as far as your wanting to see a Mat time line, there is this; it's not exactly a timeline but it sums up a lot about him:

Matrim (Mat) Cauthon, p. 21 (13)—A young man from Emond's Field. He is ta'veren. Along with his good friends, Rand al'Thor and Perrin Aybara, he left home to escape the Trolloc attack on Winternight. On the way to Tar Valon, he picked up a dagger from Shadar Logoth tainted with the evil that destroyed Aridhol, which he carried with him for a long time. He was separated from the dagger by Aes Sedai Healing, but doing so caused large gaps in his memory sequence. These gaps were filled and more when he passed through the twisted door to the land of the Eelfinn, where he was granted his three requests: a foxhead medallion that protected him from women's channeling, a way out of the land of the Eelfinn, and the memories of past lifetimes that were the gaps in his memory. Mat's ta'veren qualities manifest themselves particularly well with random events, such as dice games—he almost never loses a toss of the dice, even if the dice are weighted. He has found that battles are the ultimate form of gambling, and along with his newfound memories he can win almost every battle he fights quite decisively. He has four sisters, including Eldrin and Bodewhin, who are 17 and 16, respectively. His father Abell is one of the best archers in the Two Rivers, possibly in the World. Mat has gotten in the habit of carrying concealed knives under his clothes in case he is attacked—his collection would surprise anyone. In the Waste, he met a woman named Melindhra, a Maiden of the Spear from the Shaido Clan. However, she is not the Daughter of the Nine Moons, who Mat is destined to marry according to the Aelfinn; besides, she tried to kill him on orders from her master among the Darkfriends. Mat had to kill her to save his own skin, but regrets it deeply. He has a scar along his neck from where the Eelfinn tried to kill him—which was also in accordance with what the Aelfinn told him, that he is “to die and live again.” He currently heads an army called the Band of the Red Hand, after the army of King Aemon of old Manetheren, and serves in a way as Rand's personal general—this works well, since Mat seems to be a better general than even Davram Bashere, who has earned his good reputation as one of the best commanders alive. Mat does not trust any Aes Sedai, and because of this refuses to take his foxhead medallion off even to bathe.


from this website: http://www.ugcs.calt...~karlh/wot.html -- If you go to the page of the book you are reading you can find out what you should know about all the characters in the book at that point. you can either search in order of appearance in the chapters, or alphabetically by first or last name. It's very useful if you forget who's who. it definitely helps sort it out imo since the glossaries aren't exactly comprehensive.

As for Mazrim Taim, you have to remember he's been channeling for several years longer than Rand, so yes, he is one of the most powerful. Just because Rand is the Dragon Reborn, does not exempt him from having to learn to control saidin so that it does not destroy him or drive him insane.

Hope you're having fun with it.

#4 Mr Ares

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 04:15 AM

But Nyneave personality BUGS ME SO MUCH.

You don't love Nynaeve? What's wrong with you?

-Mazrim Taim appears to be almost as strong as Rand?!  And Rand is practically stronger then most Forsaken?  He was completely even with Asmodean.  That is interesting.

Rand hasn't been channeling as long as either of them, and it takes time to reach your full strength.

-Why is Lews Therin saying to kill everyone?!

He's insane.

When will Rand turn into LTT?

Never.

First of all, if anyone have an exact TimeLine of Mat since leaving 2rivers, and now in LOC...please post it. I am curious.

Timeline for all chracters, sorted by book: http://www.stevenac....ot/wotchron.htm

Reading now about Mat, asking everyone who the Priestess of the Nine Moons is...

Daughter of the Nine Moons.

Which is weird because..isn't that what they call their RULER/QUEEN in Seanchan land?

No, it's what they call their heir. And what's weird about it?

I thought it was Lanfear at first, she has a nickname having to do w/the moon right?

No. Her name means Daughter of the Night.

Shaido will end up fighting for Illian.

Seems a bit random. Why?

#5 The Fisher King

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:02 PM

I also REALLY liked Pedro Niall as well.

I also agree that his motives seemed very very Pure.

And not just the Fanatical kind of 'Pure' motives of most Children Cloaks...But, he seemed a bit deeper. I know we got inside his head and that makes a difference, but we have also gotten POVS from lots of Bornhalds and Carridin and Galadred and Answuna and countless other Children and Niall definitely seems the most intelligent and open-minded. I could see him sitting down to a cup of tea with...well...probably not an Aes Sedai...lets not stretch it here...but probably The Dragon Reborn. He became pals with the ''Witch-Harboring'' Morgase, after all, dids he not?


Fish

#6 chris777

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:48 AM

But Nyneave personality BUGS ME SO MUCH.

You don't love Nynaeve? What's wrong with you?

-Mazrim Taim appears to be almost as strong as Rand?!  And Rand is practically stronger then most Forsaken?  He was completely even with Asmodean.  That is interesting.

Rand hasn't been channeling as long as either of them, and it takes time to reach your full strength.

-Why is Lews Therin saying to kill everyone?!

He's insane.

When will Rand turn into LTT?

Never.

First of all, if anyone have an exact TimeLine of Mat since leaving 2rivers, and now in LOC...please post it. I am curious.

Timeline for all chracters, sorted by book: http://www.stevenac....ot/wotchron.htm

Reading now about Mat, asking everyone who the Priestess of the Nine Moons is...

Daughter of the Nine Moons.

Which is weird because..isn't that what they call their RULER/QUEEN in Seanchan land?

No, it's what they call their heir. And what's weird about it?

I thought it was Lanfear at first, she has a nickname having to do w/the moon right?

No. Her name means Daughter of the Night.

Shaido will end up fighting for Illian.

Seems a bit random. Why?


Nynaeve is annoying, dunno how anyone can stand her.  I know Rand hasn't been channeling, that wasn't my point.  My point was..Rand isn't as strong as he will be, I know that..but he's a match for most any of the Forsaken(the MOST POWERFUL EVER!)..and Taim is already that powerful?  Maybe he's not....yet.
Daughter Priestess, Moon/Night...it's all a jumbled mess.  But I was close anyways!
Why is that Random, the 2 groups who want to kill Rand the most(maybe minus White Cloaks), combine?  Shaido already approached the white tower to combine forces, Sammael finds out, approaches Shaido, tricks them...etc.  I assume if I was correct you would have answered differently though.

#7 chris777

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:49 AM


from this website: http://www.ugcs.calt...~karlh/wot.html -- If you go to the page of the book you are reading you can find out what you should know about all the characters in the book at that point. you can either search in order of appearance in the chapters, or alphabetically by first or last name. It's very useful if you forget who's who. it definitely helps sort it out imo since the glossaries aren't exactly comprehensive.


NICE THANKS!

#8 chris777

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:42 PM

Another thing that popped into my head awhile ago.
(I know I seem like I'm mainly just complaining about things I see as plot holes..but just trying to analyze every POV).
Rand was SUPER powerful when he got Callandor(sp?) right.  Lanfear said, there are 2 more, MORE powerful then that.  If they each controlled the one for their gender, they could CHALLENGE THE Great Lord himself...
Now Rand has both the male and female one(or did they throw the female one in the ocean?  what was that thing that Nynaeve had that Sea Captian thow away?).  Rand seems pretty powerful w/it...but if he could take the dark one 1v1 or 2v1, why can't he just use it to kill every single Forsaken at once..or do something crazy powerful.  He should have been able to kill Rhavin(Now Sammael or any others) from across the world, by simply stopping his heart, or something.
What am i missing?

#9 Impressive Bosom

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:17 PM

Another thing that popped into my head awhile ago.
(I know I seem like I'm mainly just complaining about things I see as plot holes..but just trying to analyze every POV).
Rand was SUPER powerful when he got Callandor(sp?) right.  Lanfear said, there are 2 more, MORE powerful then that.  If they each controlled the one for their gender, they could CHALLENGE THE Great Lord himself...
Now Rand has both the male and female one(or did they throw the female one in the ocean?  what was that thing that Nynaeve had that Sea Captian thow away?).  Rand seems pretty powerful w/it...but if he could take the dark one 1v1 or 2v1, why can't he just use it to kill every single Forsaken at once..or do something crazy powerful.  He should have been able to kill Rhavin(Now Sammael or any others) from across the world, by simply stopping his heart, or something.
What am i missing?


There are several answers to that, not all of which are appropriate to this forum, but I will offer a couple of thoughts:

Just because you have the power to do a thing does not mean you have the knowledge to do a thing. Imagine having a nuclear weapon but no means of delivering it across the ocean... or on a smaller scale, a truckload of ammunition but no gun or no knowledge how to properly aim and fire one. An alternate analogy is that just because you have a very sharp knife doesn't mean you have the knowledge/ability to be a surgeon.

Just because you have the power to do a thing doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do. Especially if you don't fully know the ramifications of using the power... Callandor turned out to have a flaw in it, a potentially disasterous one - perhaps that has made Rand cautious about using an unknown something exponentially even MORE powerful?

#10 Emez Vatsetek

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:30 PM

Exactly. And how boring would it be to have Rand psychically imploding all of the Forsaken and the Dark One from the safety of his palaces anyway? The end!  ::) It wouldn't make for an interesting story, and ostensibly Rand is still not invincible nor all-powerful. Even so, the Forsaken still go down pretty easily, even without callandor, which Rand is for some reason like, "Meh, I think I'll just leave it as a symbol of my prophecies... becuz I am the Dragon Reborn, and you know, the good guy always wins, so I don't even have to try." :P In fact, I think the other way around also applies; if the Forsaken are so powerful, why don't they step it up and prove it?

#11 chris777

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:32 PM

There are several answers to that, not all of which are appropriate to this forum, but I will offer a couple of thoughts:

Just because you have the power to do a thing does not mean you have the knowledge to do a thing. Imagine having a nuclear weapon but no means of delivering it across the ocean... or on a smaller scale, a truckload of ammunition but no gun or no knowledge how to properly aim and fire one. An alternate analogy is that just because you have a very sharp knife doesn't mean you have the knowledge/ability to be a surgeon.

Just because you have the power to do a thing doesn't mean it is the correct thing to do. Especially if you don't fully know the ramifications of using the power... Callandor turned out to have a flaw in it, a potentially disasterous one - perhaps that has made Rand cautious about using an unknown something exponentially even MORE powerful?

That kind of explains it I guess.  I dunno, still seems like he shouldn't have then had so much trouble with Rhavin.(did he bring it vs Rhavin, i forget)
Callandor had a flaw?  I just started LOC book, do I know of this flaw yet?  I forget that also, if I do. =)

#12 chris777

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:37 PM

Exactly. And how boring would it be to have Rand psychically imploding all of the Forsaken and the Dark One from the safety of his palaces anyway? The end!  ::) It wouldn't make for an interesting story, and ostensibly Rand is still not invincible nor all-powerful. Even so, the Forsaken still go down pretty easily, even without callandor, which Rand is for some reason like, "Meh, I think I'll just leave it as a symbol of my prophecies... becuz I am the Dragon Reborn, and you know, the good guy always wins, so I don't even have to try." :P In fact, I think the other way around also applies; if the Forsaken are so powerful, why don't they step it up and prove it?

It would be boring, but that doesn't remove the plot hole this all mighty ter'angreal created.  As far as the reverse, I can more understand why they don't.  For one, they obviously fear LTT, and think Rand is him reborn.  They also are all paranoid/cowards.  Most of them went over to "The Dark Side", because they don't really care, just want to be on the winning side.  So why would they risk THEIR hide.  They try and do everyhing sneakily or from the shadows... =)


#13 Emez Vatsetek

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:14 PM


That kind of explains it I guess.  I dunno, still seems like he shouldn't have then had so much trouble with Rhavin.(did he bring it vs Rhavin, i forget)
Callandor had a flaw?  I just started LOC book, do I know of this flaw yet?  I forget that also, if I do. =)


What kind of trouble with Rahvin? It seemed like once he found him he pretty much just blasted him away. As for callandor, the only flaw I remember is that once Rand had drawn it, it could be wielded by someone else, so that was a potential danger.

It would be boring, but that doesn't remove the plot hole this all mighty ter'angreal created.  As far as the reverse, I can more understand why they don't.  For one, they obviously fear LTT, and think Rand is him reborn.  They also are all paranoid/cowards.  Most of them went over to "The Dark Side", because they don't really care, just want to be on the winning side.  So why would they risk THEIR hide.  They try and do everyhing sneakily or from the shadows... =)

Yeah, that makes sense I guess. The Forsaken are really just like a nuisance, an obstacle in between him and the inevitable Tarmon Gai'don.

As for the ter'angreal...I'm not sure what you mean by plot hole...? But I do think he will eventually wield it (callandor, although it is a sa'angreal) again to help him channel powerfully perhaps against a tough opponent. It's all speculation at this point though.

#14 chris777

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 05:40 AM

Against Rhavin he almost lost, damn near died.  He was stuck in water thrashing and shooting balefire in every direction.  Finally got out, and was being turned into something else, an animal that couln't channel, and with his last ditch effort was going to shoot a beam at him.  But it was Nynaeve that basically saved him unknowingly.  She put fire to Rhavin, making him stop messing with Rand, giving rand Rhavin's location, then he did a HUGE concentrated Balefire beam, which undid Asmodean and Aviendha's deaths.  And I seem to remember him having that huge all powerful ter'angeal in his pocket?  I could be wrong on that last part though.

I don't remember what flaw callandor had/has, but if it does, he hasn't noticed any flaw the couple times he's used the Male part of the SUPER powerful one.
Seems like there HAS to be a reason I'm forgetting that he doesn't use it all the time...?  Otherwise, ya it's a huge plothole.

#15 Mr Ares

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:56 AM

He doesn't use the CK all the time because he doesn't trust himself with it. He used Callandor and tried to ressurect someone. He doesn't know what sort of craziness something even more powerful would lead him to, so he is sparing with it.

Nynaeve is annoying, dunno how anyone can stand her.

She's not annoying.

Why is that Random, the 2 groups who want to kill Rand the most(maybe minus White Cloaks), combine?

Why should they? Why not throw in the Whitecloaks, they hate Rand as well. My enemy's enemy might not be my friend, he might just be my enemy.

I assume if I was correct you would have answered differently though.

Dangerous things, assumptions.

#16 chris777

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:56 AM

I'm a slow reader. =/
About done with chapter 12.

Main thing here is Alana and Verin.  And Nynaeve and Elayne

Alana made Rand her warder?!  Holy crap?  Did not see that coming.  What impact will that have?!  I would think eventually he will find a way to break it, or someone will.  Or she will break it herself the first time he fights a Forsaken, and she somehow can't handle the power he is drawing in.  I dunno.  And who do we trust?  At first i thought Alana was the untrustworthy one, and Verin was a good guy.  Now i'm thinking the opposite is true.  Verin is all trying to control and manipulate everyone, and Alana is crying cause her warder died.
Was pretty fkn awesome how they tried to block Rand and he was like "WTH is this?" BRUTE FORCE "Now you are both cut off"  Man If i was him, and that just happened to me...I'd pick them up with Air, make them feel PAIN.. And take them both to the palace and interagate the shit out of them.  Wouldn't you?  Wouldn't you want to know EXACTLY what this Bonding is going to effect.

Nynaeve and Elayne.  Trying to learn secrets from Moghdein.  I pretty much hate all Aes Sedai at this point, besides maybe Moraine.  I hope Nynaeve fixes Suan and Logain.  And I really hope they kill Moghdien SOON, because she is going to find a way out of that necklace i think...and when she does...OH SNAP..watch out.

Rand is letting Taim put together an Army of super powered human weapons?  Holy crap?  Think about Taim's line of thinking.  He wants GLORY.  And to be Rand's general of the most powerful army like that.  Kind scary...but pretty awesome.  Hopefully he doesn't teach all the kids to obey HIM and not Rand...then we gotta whole nuther mess =)

So far this book is way better then the last.  
I like it better when Nynaeve is all submissive to Aes Sedai then trying to fight to BE THE LEADER OF THE GROUP.  So immature.

#17 chris777

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 01:42 PM

Starting chapter 19, not a whole lot has happened so far.
Rebel Aes Sedia are teetering on joining elaida or teaming w/rand.

Sammael tried to make a pact with Rand, and was refused..but the messenger died before he was able to relay the msg...or maybe that was what was supposed to happen if the answer was No.

Buncha inventions in his school, very much mock what we have today.

Thinsg are coming to a head, emmesaries from both Aed Sedai's are almost there.  Taim's army getting stronger daily...LTT getting more pronounced daily it seems.

#18 chris777

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 01:15 PM

Just finished chapter 30.
Aran'gar, BALTHAMEL, came back.  Apparently Siuan Sanche's good friend is black ajah...  I still don’t know if I can get over that HE was resurrected as SHE...and apparently a very voluptuous and beautiful SHE, one that would make you blush, heh.  Hopefully the awkwardness is eliminated by Rand's balefire again...or some other Aes Sedai.

Prior to that, Nynaeve healed Logain Siuan and Leanne, which I knew she would.  Apparently Logain's healing was better done then the other 2, as they are weaklings now.  When she did it to Logain it was just pure surprise, but the way he was writing those few paragraphs you knew something like that was going to happen.  Was an obvious build up, but still cool.  Then when she did Siuan, I got to be honest...almost got a little choked up.  It's kind of disappointing now that we find out they are soooo weak =/  Hopefully that changes, it HAS to.

Rand having pseudo conversations with LTT now.  Talking to himself in front of people.  This has got to hit a breaking point, or get better somehow.  Or what would be really cool is he finds out how to fix the taint on saidin, and somehow give LTT a different body..so Rand AND LTT fight the darkone? Kind of far out, but would be interesting?

And this whole business about Taim.  LTT wanting him dead, Rand unsure why he doesn't like him.  Lots of subtle hints as to him doing something, betrayal, too big of thirst for power...I dunno.

Sucks that I know Moridin is Ishamael.  Apparently we don't even find that out until book12, and I just happen to Google Moridin. =/  Stupid.

Sammael and Graendal have a pretend pact anyways.  Convinced her that Rand and him have a truce.  Rand will soon move on Sammael, probably in this book.

Padan Fain made an appearance.  I'm pretty curious what his "ability" is that he mentions.  Makes people half retarded they say.  And he makes a Mydraal look away from fear.  He got mad that someone sent a GreyMan after Rand, I wish he would just attack a Forsaken, Fain vs Sammael.  I wanna see how strong he really is.

Pedron Niall.  Apparently attacked Rand via several men w/crossbows.  I know this guy thinks everyone is a False Dragon, and he has to save the day cause no one else can.  But the reason ppl are called "FALSE" is because there is one "TRUE".  One has to consider all possibilities.  Either way, I'm afraid pedron is going to die, likely having something to do w/Fain I think...

more to come...

#19 lillcheese

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:58 PM

Don't feel too bad about googling it.  It was fairly well decided that Moridin = Ishmael long before book 12 came out.  He even got a new name - Ishidin.  So you didn't spoil things too far in advance for yourself.

#20 chris777

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 12:56 PM

Just finished book 6
SO i commented on the other guys thread who just finished book6, but a few of my own thoughts.

So both the tower aes sedai, and the shaido were planning on killing eachother to void their pact.  And the tower was going to kill Gawyn as well...Gawyn animosity toward Rand make no sense IMO.  He can't be that convinced he kill Morgase, how does the whole city know Morgase is in there with Naill but word doesn't spread to Gawyn and Galad?

So Berlain is going to fall in love with Galad?  They made some remark that seemed to point that direction.

These ppl need cellphones and the internet.  So they can know what just happened on the other side of their continent.  Elaida and the rebel Aes Sedai need to be shaking in their boots.

Mog is free!  Watch out! the fan is going to be hit...

When does Moraine come back, ffs we need her back!  And Lanfear they are too key roles to lose so early.  Hopefully book7 they come back.

Great book.