DISCUSSION: Days Five and Six

[Niamh Sedai]

Hey Guys! I totally forgot to post these. As this deals with stuff from HBP, I figured we could discuss it in one thread.

 

Firstly, Snape. Good or Bad? Double Agent or is he working for himself? This was one of the most interesting questions posed by HBP. Many fans remain divided. What do you think? Why?

 

Dumbledore, Dumbledore, Dumbledore. We discuss this very regularly on the Blue Boards. Dead or alive? Coming back? Dead as a Dodo? What do you think? Charis, you can now state your opinion and I won't mock you (much  :D). Why do you think this? What evidence is there in the books?

 

What are all your opinions?

[Loreina]

For a long time I thought that Snape wasn't really Snape. But the Marauder's Map showed him as Snape. Can the map be fooled by the Polyjuice Potion? I thought perhaps Snape might really be Regulas Black. The "wanting the Dark Arts Teacher position but never getting it" was a cover. Before it could get too obvious, however, the job was finally given to him in HBP. Since you have to 'mean it' when you do the forbidden curses, and he doesn't want Dumbledore dead, he could safely 'fake' the death spell with Dumbledore's cooperation. This leaves Dumbledore free to work unobserved and gives Snape/Regulas an entree into the Death Eaters again. Then the locket part bothered me. It didn't seem to fit, as Regulas would have told Dumbledore the locket wasn't Slytherin's. But then it occurred to me that Dumbledore knew an awful lot about the cave and the potion, etc. So, I think Regulas did tell him, and he took Harry there to set in motion all of the events that followed. He did this because it is Harry who has to face Voldermort. While Voldermort is focusing on Harry, Dumbledore, with help from Regulus, will pick off the Death Eaters, while doing what he can to protect Harry. I also think that Dumbledore's 'experiment' with Harry and Kreacher was really to see if Regulus' disguise was working well enough. If Kreacher hadn't obeyed Harry, Dumbledore would have known Regulus wasn't safe.

 

Yeah, I know, far-fetched, but logically argued. I think.  :-\ 

[Daruya]

First, the map does see through the polyjuice potion – remember when Harry saw Barty Crouch in Snape’s office?  That was Barty Crouch Jr getting ingredients for the polyjuice potion.

 

So is Snape a good guy or bad guy?  Could be he didn’t mean the curse hence the curse may not have killed Dumbledore – but Dumbledore’s neck was broken, remember?  So, as much as I hate to admit it, he might be dead.  But I'm still ambivalent about Snape.

 

[Loreina]

Rats. What a beautiful domino effect as my ideas crash and burn.  :(

I missed that part about Dumbledore's neck being broken.

I still think Snape was acting on Dumbledore's orders, to save Malfoy. He doesn't want a new generation of Death Eaters. So, in that case, I would say no Dumbledore resurrection, and Snape is a good guy going back undercover. Snape could have killed Harry at the end of HBP, but he didn't. He 'said' that Harry was Voldermort's, but I think that was just a convenient excuse.

 

 

[Dwynwen]

I think Dumbledore is dead, but that Harry will still have various ways of communicating with him:

 

His portrait

The Pensieve

The Mirror of Erised

Time turners

 

I am still undecided about Snape.

[Daruya]

Weren't all the time turners destroyed in the fight at the Ministry in OotP?

 

And the Mirror of Erised shows you the deepest desires of your heart - but not necessarily the truth.  And the books never mentioned actual interaction (conversations) with the mirror - just a reflection. 

 

The pensieve is a definite possibility, though, as is his portrait.

[Loreina]

*nods* Yes, Hermione says somewhere that all the time-turners were destroyed.

But if they made them once, they could make more, given enough time (no pun intended). ;)

The reason I was trying to find a way around admitting that Dumbledore was really dead was because I think the author has been very clear that resurrections are not 'allowed'. None of the OotP guys has been resurrected or even tried to use a horcrux (yet, that I know of). Only Voldermort has tried it, and they treat what he's done as part of the dark arts. But as you've pointed out, he can still communicate with Harry through his portrait. (I wonder how that works? Are the portraits a variation on the pensieve magic? An interesting but irrelevant and unanswerable question... :) 

[MsDanya]

snape is evil and dumbledoor is dead  :)

[Dwynwen]

I doubt that every single time turner in existance happened to be at the Ministry.  Someone, somewhere probably had their own hidden (I bet Dumbledore might have a secret one stashed somewhere) and if not, they can always make more.

 

Even if the Mirror of Erised doesn't always tell the truth, it does show your deepest desire, and if your deepest desire is to have Dumbledore answer a particular question for you, I don't see why the Mirror wouldn't show Dumbledore.  Besides, he doesn't have to talk to be able to guide Harry; he can show him something nonverbally.

[Loreina]

You're right Dwyn and there's something else strange about that mirror. I can't recall all of the details, and I loaned my book to my niece, but in PS/SS, the stone wasn't in his pocket, but then it was. So it can transfer matter in someway, right?

[Thorum]

I'm quite sure Snape is innocent. I've read the books the first time thinking he was quilty; after HBP, I've started getting convinced of his innocence; and now I'm almost sure he is nót a Death Eater. The books make much more sense that way

[U4ea]

Snape is a good guy caught in a bad spot, I believe. I think he became a Death Eater because he was angry, but regretted it later and, so, became a double agent in league with the Order. I believe his promise to Draco's mother forced his hand and he killed Dumbledore, but I think he and Dumbledore had already discussed it. I don't think Dumbledore just died without having a plan intact, he's not that stupid. Whether it's through means already established (the portraits or the pensieve) I think is up for debate, but I'm willing to bet he's there to help Harry, at least until Voldemort is taken care of.

 

I think in this book, we'll find Snape using his position with the Death Eaters to usurp Voldemort and ultimately bring him down. I have a really hard time wrapping my head around him as a truly bad guy. We have Lucious for that. LOL I don't think Harry's going to kill him, to be honest. The Prophesy didn't say one had to kill the other, did it? I believe it just said that neither could live while the other was alive, right?