The Song of Tuatha'an (spoiler)

[Guest Andrewz80]

Hi all.

 

Im on my 7th (or something) re-read/audio of TWOT series and im a little bit puzzled regarding the Song of the Tuatha'an.

Already in the beginning of the series, TEOTW, one gets to know that the no 1 quest for the travelling people is to find ​The Song. ​It is

clear for, at least me, that the song reffering to, is the song to create trees and flowers e t c. .i.e. bring Life to the World. This is very clear during

Rand's visit in to the pillars in Rhuiedan and also in AMOL, when the Ogier and Rand bring forth trees and flowering with help of a song.

The last sentences about Raen and Ila is that they search for wounded on the last battleground, that will say, there is a obvious flaw not finishing their

quest to finally find the song.

 

I really love TWOT series, do not misintrepet my comment herein.

I would appreciate if one could give me an answer/opinion

 

 

[thehumantrashcan]

   I would say you almost answered your question.  They seek the song for life, yet in the end they seek the battlefield for life they can save.  If anything, it's a poetic way to end the story of them fulfilling their search.  They search to save life so that it may continue.

   Little do they know, there is no way to find the The Song as all the Green Men are dead.

[Sabio]

Well Rand knows the song, or at least he did if he still has LTT's memories.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

It's the song he heard in rhuidean

[jack of shadows]

@andrewz80,

"there is an obvious flaw not finishing their quest to finally find the song".

the obvious flaw is with the tuatha'an quest,THERE IS NO SONG,during

his fifth flashback at rhuidean,rand witnessed the birth of the tuatha'an,

sulwin,their leader,told adan:"we mean to find a place where we can be

safe,and sing again",over three thousand years this manifested into the

search for "the song",ironically,rand probably knew more about "the song"

than the tuatha'an ever did:"i have heard those old stories,too,that aiel singing

was a wondrous thing,but you know those old songs no more than i do",

the tuatha'an entire raison d'etre was a fool's errand,like searching for el dorado.

Edited April 2, 2017 by jack of shadows

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

In the theoryland interview database, Sanderson said that he asked RJ about the song and for once got a straight answer. It was the song Rand heard in rhuidean.

 

I don't know if RJ stuck with that answer, or if Sanderson reported it correctly, or if the interview was transcribed correctly. But that database is pretty accurate usually.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Mrs. Cindy Gill

[jack of shadows]

lol,robert jordan never gave a straight answer in his entire wheel of time 

journey,he was too fond of aes sedai propensity for vagueness.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Ah, actually it's from Steven cooper (?)

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=the%20song'

 

Idk, he did give some straight answers. It's a good database to search if you have time and interest. I'm kinda meh ATM.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Ya, na, BS contradicts it and us a better source

 

INTERVIEW: 2013

Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

JAY FONSECA (23 JANUARY 2013)

So I always wondered... what ever happened to the Tinkers' song? Did I miss a resolution to that arc?

BRANDON SANDERSON (23 JANUARY 2013)

By specific instruction from RJ, the Tinkers have not found their song as of the end of A Memory of Light.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

The song of growing is not their "Song." The Song is a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.

 

TJ

Do you imagine that Rand teaches "the song" to the Tu'athan after the events of A Memory of Light?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Rand does not know The Song. Anything he'd try to teach them, they would not accept as The Song.

 

AARON OSTER

Wait, are you saying Rand's song that Mat recognized wasn't the Tinkers' song?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Tinker "Song" is an ideal that goes far beyond any song that has actually ever existed.

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Mrs. Cindy Gill

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

More

 

INTERVIEW: Feb 8th, 2013

AMOL Signing Report - DJ Stipe (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Multiple people asked about the Tinker Song and the Way of the Leaf.

 

Brandon said it's more than a song, it's a way of life. The song itself would mean peace and harmony for all people. Robert Jordan said it can't be found, it's a way of life (to quote Brandon, quoting RJ, "The Tinkers never do find their damn Song.") Put another way, as Brandon wrote on the cover of one Memory Keeper's book: "journey over destination".

 

 

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Sad sad no never

 

INTERVIEW: Feb 20th, 2013

AMOL Signing Report - JaimieKrycho (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Do the Tinkers ever find the Song?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Directly in Robert Jordan's notes, is this quote, verbatim: "The Tinkers never find their damn song!"

 

TAGS

tinkers, rj's notes,

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

On and on like that.

 

Boooo

[jack of shadows]

THERE IS NO SONG LOLOLOL,

steven cooper created the wheel of time timeline database,up until the gathering storm.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I am once again annoyed with a beloved departed author.

 

*cries*

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Though RJ doesn't say there's no song, just that they'll never find their damn song. Bs says the rest and who knows what he knows.

 

Still.

 

Boooooo.

[jack of shadows]

oh come on,it's not the end of the world.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

It's another in a long string of disappointments over something that had great promise.

 

I just feel like he trolled us sometimes.

[jack of shadows]

you'll get no argument from me in regard to a long  string of disappointments.

[Sabio]

It fits RJ, as he said multiple times he wasn't a fan of tying up all lose ends.  There is no song for them to find or learn since they are actually seeking an ideal and not a actual song.

[Orderofolde]

There is a slight flaw in everyone's logic regarding the song.  If we look back to the Aiel singing there were three parts to the "song" of memory.  The Aiel Sing their song as do those with the talent of having the "voice."  Next there are the Ogier and their contribution of the songs of growing bridging the gap between the Tinkers, and last there are the Greenmen dancing around with their "magic" at work.  Rand can sing the "song" under his breath and make things grow probably better than anyone else due to his connection with the land when he approaches Tuon for the second time. 

 

However, what is generally being said is in fact true, that the Tinkers are searching for something from the past called "the song" and they will only know it when they find it.  What they are searching in reality is a return to the old way where a majority of people follow the way of the leaf, or at least the majority respect it.  It will be a time when they can stop traveling and gather as a people once more and live in safety and without fear in and among people as in the days of old.  The song was stopped being sung by the Tinkers among all the turmoil for whatever reason.  Maybe the breaking created far too much chaos for them to sing and harvest crops in a single afternoon as food was a worry during the breaking as we see the Seeker fretting as his people feed Ogier they came across.  However, Tinkers in Rand's time seem to have an endless supply of vegetable soup which is so good apparently people attempted to infiltrate them to learn their secret recipe.    So, maybe they know the song of growing but it isn't the same as it isn't tied to the lore that they have of how things used to be and that is what they truly seek.

[jack of shadows]

@orderofolde,

"bridging the gap between the tinkers..."

the tinkers didn't exist then,only the da'shain aiel.

 

"tinkers are searching for something from the past called "the song"

and they will only know it when they find it".

wishful thinking,rand went through a sequence of nine flashbacks,spanning(probably)

300 years,the original group who later became the tuatha'an,left the da'shain aiel 

probably 150 years after the breaking,reading the heated exchange between adan 

and sulwin,it is clear that none of them heard,or even knew about the existence

of the seed singing.(rand's fifth flashback).

 

"where a majority of people follow the way of the leaf".

no,the majority of people didn't follow the way of the leaf, not even during the age of legends,

only the da'shain aiel did, it was the covenant between the dragon and his children.

Edited April 3, 2017 by jack of shadows

[wotfan4472]

It seems like the Travelling People are seeking a return to the Covenant.

[OlwenaSedai]

I am astonished that a lot of people seem to think of this as an actual song - in the beginning I did, too, but eventually (and especially after Rand's Rhuidean visit) it was rather obvious that there is no specific song - the song is a concept, it is a lifestyle, it is their longing to live a peaceful life. What they are truly searching for is peace for mankind, or a sanctuary. The closest you get is the Ogier steddings (where, ironically, they also do sing for the trees). Yet, the Tuath'an have not settled there. They have become so used to their nomadic way of life, and travelling is how they trade, recruit followers etc.

 

I believe many Tinkers have also realised this. "Have you heard/found the Song" is mainly a formal greeting, and it can be interpreted as if they're really asking whether whoever they are talking to have found the Way of the Leaf. I think they know that they could maybe be allowed to settle amongst the Ogier and live their peaceful lives, but I believe travelling has become a part of their lifestyle now, and they do not want to give it up. Plus, some of them have an ideologic calling of trying to spread their way to the rest of the world.

 

Their dream is a beautiful one - a peaceful world without violence, filled with laughter and singing. It is an utopian dream which a lot of people would say would never last in a world consisting of humans (case in point: The Jenn dwindled as more and more people chose the fighting Aiel), but a beautiful and commendable vision nonetheless. I always liked the Travelling People and their never-ending quest of trying to show the world that there is an alternative, a different way. Of course, refusing to defend yourself or your family seems mainly completely stupid, and this point seems stretched too far, but it's part of what makes them what they are. Their Song is their vision, a world without violence and fear. And, even those this "sacrifice" seems pointless, I do believe they hope people can be changed by it: if you are faced with the choice of killing someone completely helpess, would you still do it? Even when you could rob their shoes off their feet and they would do nothing to stop you. Which is also, of course, why most decent people think of attacking them much like attacking babies, or dogs, or elderly people unable to put up a fight. And this gives them a certain protection, aswell.

Edited April 28, 2017 by OlwenaSedai

[Orderofolde]

Yah, I meant the Aiel in that post.  My main point was for a people that are on the move all the time that don't approach towns or villages, where do they get their veggies for their endless supply of stew?  It was an attempt at humor.  But they do have old ones that tended the Chora cuttings, maybe they grow stuff in pots.

[Sabio]

Tinkers in Rand's time will approach villages, they usually trade repair services for things they need.  They don't like to approach towns because of all the rumors about tinkers being thieves etc..  I'm sure they avoid any large towns.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Sabio