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Posted by Virginia on June 10th, 2009 in the |
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Galad Damodred and Gawyn Trakand are the topic of this episode. Andrew Gelos and Virginia discuss the half-brothers and their relationship to other characters in the Wheel of Time series, especially Rand and Elayne. This is one of a series of discussions of so-called “minor protagonists.” As always, during our discussions we go into all the books of the Wheel of Time series, from New Spring through Knife of Dreams, so if you haven’t finished your first read-through, you may want to come back to these podcasts when you have, as THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. Our heartfelt gratitude goes out to new editor Spencer who finished this one up in record time! Listen Now:
 The 4th Age Podcast - Episode 51 - Galad and Gawyn: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download |
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69 Responses to “The 4th Age Podcast – Episode 51 – Galad and Gawyn”Leave a Reply |
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I was wondering if you would discuss Berelain falling for the Man in White. I have just finished rereading Lord of Chaos, and had assumed it would be Galad. There is not good foreshadowing of this event. It could be a gai’shain, but I don’t see who it could be as an Aiel other than Rhuarc. The wise ones would certainly find her a husband, but it seems a stretch, or a throw-away plotline. Might she fall for one of the Cairhienen that are acting like Aiel? This does not seem right either-she has better taste than to settle for an imitation.
The Aiel would not be pleased by a Damodred Tree-Killer taking the throne in Cairhien.
I can see Berelain meeting Galad as she moves with Perrin. How close are Berelain/Perrin to Galad and the Whitecloaks at the end of KoD? That would be an interesting meeting of armies.
Doe you really think Dain Bornhald is behind Galad? I see Dain as a character more like Aram. He may behave for awhile, but will eventually have to be killed when he attacks Galad.
Gawyn is one of the most tortured characters in the WoT. Galad in many ways lacks a conscience. He decides what is right, and does it without regret. Galad is burdened by a conscience. He has to make bargains with himself. At Dumai’s Wells, Gawyn will not harm Rand because of his promise to Egwene, but he will not help Rand either. He is constantly trying to do the right thing, but is tortured by the decisions. His character is so conflicted that he is the one who could snap and do the wrong thing while he tries to balance all of his opposing responsibilities. I think this internal conflict will result in his death.
On a completely different note: I was looking back at the old podcast on prophecies and was struck by a thought.
“Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon’s blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.”
TGH,Ch26
There has been a lot of talk about the “Blood” being Rand’s, or Elayne’s children, but RJ names three groups of people “Blood” 1. The Ancient Blood-Aiel, 2.The Old Blood-Manetheren/Three River’s People, 3. “The Blood”-the Seanchan. I suspect it is Rand’s blood, but it is interesting that there are so many groups that are of “The Blood.”
Ooooh – good point, Luke! The Aiel could easily be considered the Dragon’s Blood, they are already the Children of the Dragon! An army of Aiel backing him at Shayol Ghul would certainly spill blood – even Aiel will be hard pressed by Dreadlords and hordes of Myrddraal and Trollocs.
What if a new Aiel Society or Clan coming into being – The Dragon’s Blood?
Virginia
4th Age podcaster
V-The Siswai’aman could become the Dragon’s Blood.
I was just struck by the fact that the Seanchan Blood were left out of discussions of the Dragon’s Blood. I am wondering if one of the things that happens in AMoL is that some of the Seanchan Blood go over to the Dragon and becoem the Dragon’s Blood.
Hey thanks for the new podcast! As far as Berelain and the man in white, while I do think it is most likely Galad, I also think it could be a gai’shain. I am wondering if this is why the Wise ones took such a liking to Berelain (as discussed in a previous podcast) maybe one of the dreamwalkers had a dream or saw a future in the 3 rings where Berelain fell in love with an Aiel. He may not have been gai’shain in the wise one’s vision, but he now (or at some point) wears the white. Just a thought trying to tie the Wise One’s affection for Berelain into a possibility that the man in white is/was/will be a gai’shain.
Is there a potential husband in the Aiel for Berelain? I can’t think of a person. Rhuarc and Gaul are not possibilities in my mind. There really isn’t a big enough character to match Berelain beyond those two. It would have to be a new character. RJ/BS could introduce a new character or expand a minor one, but I am not sure it would be worthwhile. I like Galad for her so much better.
Great podcast guys! Galad is one of my all time favorite characters. As you said, it’s easy to dismiss him, even though he’s a superb swordsman and now head of one of the most influential organizations out there. If you recall, most of the Children of The Light who aren’t with him have been captured by the Seanchan. He could be the one to bring about a revolution, making it possible for us to finally see Aes Sedai and Whitecloaks working together. If not in a permanent alliance, then at least till the battle between the light and shadow is decided.
Even though Galad always does what he believes is right, he loves his family above all else. In spite of how mean Elayne is to him, he still loves and protects her. Morgase isn’t is mother, but he defended her honor with his life. Same goes for Gawyn; his death could put Galad in a higher position of power, but he saves him instead. He may have his faults, but he’s also got allot of good qualities. One of the things that sets him apart is his modesty when it comes to his talents. He doesn’t think himself better than he is, and he doesn’t do things for power. When he was awarded the rank of Captain Commander, he was very reluctant to take it. That battle was about his mother’s honor, not for a raise in rank. I’d like to see him on the Sun Throne!
I personally, am not sure about Min’s viewing in regards to Berelain. On one hand, it seems a little too obvious for the man in white to be Galad. Then again, the facts might be hidden in plain sight. What about Perrin? What if, light forbid, something happened to Faile and it was him the viewing refers to. On this side of the Arith ocean, white is the color for morning. Hm… I never considered the possibility of it being a Gai’shain. To me, the relationship between Berelain and Ruark seems like that of a father and daughter. The WiseOnes treat her in a similar fassion. Does he not already have two wives? I believe he’s married to the RoofMistress of Coldrocks Hold as well as Amys.
Great job everyone! Another wonderful podcast.
I don’t think Galad taking the throne in Cairhien would work. Galad is too honest and straight forward and I’m positive he could never play Daes Dae’mar and the Cairhienin could never accept a king who couldn’t play the Game of Houses.
I like the idea of Berelain and Galad being a couple. Just because she’s considered one of the most beautiful women and he one of the most beautiful men… it just makes sense. And I like the idea of her falling for him hard and not being able to use her feminine wiles to get him–cause Galad wouldn’t fall for something like that.
Thanks again for another wonderful show!
~Mashiara
A very good point, Mashiara. I hadn’t considered Galad’s obvious lack of skill when it comes to the great game. Galad and Berelain would have beautiful children!
Hey guys, great podcast! this ties well into Leigh Butler’s WOT re-read. i don’t know if you guys follow it, but she talked about Galad and Gawyn and they headdesky decisions post tower coup. There was also a great discussion on Nynaeve, and i was hoping you guys would do a podcast on her, pretty plaese…(sadly, I’ve been waiting for 3 years for one)
Always nice to have a new podcasts guys keep it up!
I hate to say negative things about your podcast, because I do know it is strictly on your free time, and I don’t pay a cent for it, but I think the reason why you don’t get any voice mails is because nobody wants to leave a message that may if at all be played on a show 3 or 4 months later. Like I said I don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, but that’s just my reasoning.
On to a more positive note. Andrew, I really liked your idea of King Galad for Carhien(sp?). I think he would be the perfect choice and it would finally give him a role that such a strong character could settle into. I’ve never understood what Elayne’s huge problem with Galad is, in all honesty, her dislike for Galad, makes me dislike her character even more. I prefer Galad.
Love the show guys, and like I said before, I’ll take em as they come. I appreciate what you all do in your free time. Wish I had the tech to help out to tell you the truth. A lot of times I feel myself wishing I was there in the discussion with you.
Just a couple of quick thoughts here, no time to do it justice. Great comments guys!
I rather like the idea of Galad for the Sun Throne too – he’s an obvious choice, being the son of Tairingail.
As for Min’s viewing, Galad is obvious as Berelain’s man in white, but everything in tWoT can’t be convoluted…can it? I think Berelain will drop Perrin like a hot angreal for someone as gorgeous as Galad, h’s a strong personaloity like Rhuarc, which she likes, and he will almost certainly have power in one or more arenas. Also, I agree that one would certainly think they would have some awesomely good-looking offspring. Though truth for true, as a dog breeder I can tell you that the most obviously should-be-amazing breedings are often quite disappointing.
The weird thing that popped into my mind is Galad and Birgitte – now that would be an even more interesting couple than Mat and Tuon! I know she’s had the same man and same cycle of things for Ages, but everything is different now. The Dragon Reborn brings change. Until she dies and is again bound to the Wheel, if she is again, there’s no reason to assume that what always was, will continue to be for her. Or for anyone else, or any organization, for that matter! Look at the Aes Sedai, already! Ash’aman, Reds bonding Warders, (channeler Warders, yet!), the Kin, the Sea Folk… The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills. Maybe we need to do one on Berelain!
And, yes, we have done a ‘cast on Nynaeve – “it’s in editing” she repeats sadly.
Virginia
V-The Siswai’aman could become the Dragon’s Blood.
Good thought!
ya never know….
There is a post by RJ that there no more taveren in the major characteres, that could mean that galad being a considered a non-major character could be a taveren. Have Logain or Nicola been near him?
there are* no
Hey i was just wonderin what that thing andrew sez at the end of every podcast means.
Paddy- me too! Could someone translate?
Looking forward to the podcast on Nynaeve.
I agree with Ray, many times I wish I was in there discussing things with you, sometimes I even talk out loud when I listen to the podcast! I wish I could help you with editing, but alas I have not tech skills.
Also- I think that Galad on the sun throne would be great. Maybe after all the changes in the world, Galad could bring an end to the game of houses. or maybe since he’s always so straightforward he would confuse them all even more!
The Berelain/Faile competition seems so petty. I hope Berelain gives it up now that Faile is back with Perrin. You would think that she would accept that she lost and move on. Maybe Galad is the person that will get Berelain to leave Perrin.
I think the main reason the Aiel like Berelain is that despite being in a very dangerous position, Berelain does what she has to do to preserve her people and her country’s independence. She uses her beauty as a weapon to defend her people. I think also the pllot hread with Perrin and the Children needs to be wound up. After the first couple of books, you always thought this would be resolved at some point. So there is ample scope for Berelain meeting Galad. Finally, in one of his interviews, RJ did say he wanted to explore change in his books, and in particular how people change in circumstances. Many novel characters are static, remaining more or less the same throughout the plot but I think RJ has done a great job keeping his characters dynamic. So perhaps some of the Children characters can change as well.
If no one else translates Andrew’s Old Tongue first, I’ve asked Andrew to answer this one. Hint: it’s Shienaran.
Marc, some of the Children HAVE changed! The ones with Galad have agreed to fight alongside the “witches” at Tarmon Gaidon! BIG change!
Since all of the three boys have now aligned with their former enemies, the Seanchan, I do think that when Perrin and Gald meet, he will see that at least a few of the Chilren of the Light are not evil. On the other hand, that could be a whole new source of conflict between Rand and Perrin, if Rand allies with his half-brother Galad and Galad and Perrin are on the outs.
Hey Paddy, Kristina, et all-
“Suravye Ninto Manshima Taishite” is the Shienaran blessing/godspeed/goodbye used by Ingtar near the end of Eye of the World. I wanted to have a tagline in the Old Tongue to close out the show with that wasn’t one of Matt’s trademark phrases. Translated it means “Peace favor your sword,” and I felt that it encompassed everything that needed to be said and sounded cool at the same time.
Thanks for the query,
Andrew Gelos
So… On listening to this episode, I have a few things to say… Tun, Tun, TUN!!!
First off, I don’t think this whole Galad/Berelain thing is going to happen, for a couple of simple reasons. The first of these reasons, is that it is too obvious. Since when has RJ ever made anything obvious?
The second reson I don’t think it’ll happen is that I think Galad has other places to be, and other things to do. What they are, I’ll expound on momentarily…
The last thing is, I just don’t like the theory. who says I have to always make sense…
I did like the theory about Perrin in mourning turning to Berelain, but it’ll never happen. they got too brother-sistery while Faile was captured for that to be a viable thing to happen. My opinion, anyway.
And, lest we forget, since nobody mentioned it in the podcast… Galad and Morgase reunion when they meet up with Perrin…
As for Galad’s future, I forsee a number of options.
The first thing I think of, is, he’s too perfect. he does what’s right, he’s so handsome… no way is he OK. He’s going down, and probably by his own right-doing hands. He will make a decision he thinks is for the best, and in his usual style, damn the consequences, which will be harsh, and he’ll fall to the shadow, or somebody else hands.
Some things I’d like to see are Bornhald’s and Byar’s reactions to hooking up with Perrin. I forsee the peace pipe going round the campfire there somehow, possibly with Bornhald or Byar saving Perrin’s as in some as-kickery way which will be totally unexpected, but… Redemption for them.
Another thing I’d love to see is a rematch between Galad and Mat. Could happen – you never know…
Those are my thoughts on Galad. Gawyn comes next.
A.
On Gawyn…
I don’t really know about Gawyn’s future that much. I found him to be a much more minor character than is Galad in recent books, and I never liked his progression with regards to the tower coup.
I did want to say though, in response to the Podcast, that the two big-wig warders Gawyn killed during the fighting were not necessarily blade-masters. there is a difference between a good soldier and a good teacher, and the one doesn’t necessarily mean the other. Hammar and the others might just have been the best teachers of the group of Warders at the tower, and very experienced, but not obviously blade-masters. Besides, they were both in their later years at this point, and Gawyn might have had the edge because of his youth.
In Regards to the Egwene issue, I think Gawyn will swing towards Egwene as well, but I don’t know for sure.
Also, as I stated before, I think Galad might turn to the dark or some other source in order to “do the right thing” in his mind, and Egwene might be linked in that she will be the one to exact the penalty for it.
Finally, one last note on Galad… I don’t think he’d be a good king for Cairhien, but I thought about it as I listened to the episode, just before Andrew mentioned it.
A.
I’m going to reference the reply I wrote:
RJ’s quote verbatim is:
“For ben, of course women can be ta’veren. None of the major female characters in the books is ta’veren, though. The Wheel doesn’t cast ta’veren around indiscriminately. There has to be a specific reason or need. (I tossed in the “major” just to leave you something to argue about.)”
And the post is:
http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=31
Couldn’t he be referring to Galad? That whole thing about turning the other whitecloaks feet over heads about Aes Sedai completely caught my attention once it was brought up. It seems very much like ta’veren behavior.
I just unproved myself. I guess I didn’t remember it very well. It seems he was talking about female characters. Oh well. Could it be Cadsuane?
thanks for the translation Andrew. I agree- it’s a great way to end the podcast!
[...] The 4th Age Podcast – Episode 51 – Galad and Gawyn [...]
Nynaeve, not Galad, caused the war in betweeen the Prophet’s followers and the Whitecloaks. He did not ignore the consequences, she and Elayne did. Elayne just has it in for her brother — he was much older than her and never let get away with anything as a child, one of only a handfull she has not been able to manipulate. Gawyn lets her do what she wants, even in direct violation of a rule or an order from their mother. Most of the bad press Galad receives in tWoT comes from Elayne, so I have learned to take all of it with a grain of salt.
I did not like Galad much until his duel with Valda, but on my last re-read, I really did started to like him. His loving mother vanishes when he was just a baby. His father was cold and unloving. His stepmother tried her best — but she was the queen. His father’s relatives are almost all crazy and cruel. And yet, he grew up with an extremely strong moral core. He does not manipulate others for gain — he only cares about justice. He is a master of the sword and a master strategist and tactician. He left the White Tower because the place was full of liars — all of which took an Oath not to lie.
Galad is on the good side of two of my favorite scenes in the series— going from the Circus to the Boat in the middle of a riot, and killing Valda. In my last re-read, I remember getting so excited to get to the Galad part that the Circus part did not even bother me — a first after many, many re-reads.
Galad and Gawyn have both taken difficult roads from tSR, but I think Galad’s is a much better one. Galad was impressed by the philosophy behind the Whitecloaks — though largely ignored by the current version. He joined the group due to their high ideals, not their current actions. I think Galad will transform the Whitecloaks back to their true course.
Gawyn has not held up as well, even though I really liked him from tEotW. I have always been in the camp that Gawyn was under Compulsion during the Coup — he seems completely out of his mind and unable to think clearly when he first runs into Min. His subsequent freeing of Min, Siuan, and Leane from Tar Valon appears more in line with one who is fighting Compulsion. Given the role of the Black Ajah in the Coup and Mesaana’s presence in the Tower, it would be an easy explanation. Elayne completely excuses his actions during the Coup in Cot, thinking that if the Aes Sedai could not decide what was proper during the Coup, causing the split, how was a mere young man to know what he should do.
I still hope for Gawyn’s redemption somehow — maybe he will turn out ok.
So I’m not the only one who wishes to be in the discussion while listening to the podcast! And thanks Andru, for the translation of your closing phrase. It sounded Japanese, and I’ve been curious for a while.
Now, on to Gawyn and Galad. I felt the same way about Galad as Misthaufen. I mostly ignored Galad until that fight in the 11th book. For some reason, I saw him in a whole new light. Maybe the reason he’s so bent on doing what’s right is because he saw how much damage his family on his father’s side mannaged. (They caused the Aiel war, for light’s sake!) Either that, or maybe that perticular personality trait comes from his birth mother. When told the foretelling about how abandoning her life and going out into the waste would save the world, she did it. The WiseOnes mention that she always regretted leaving her son behind, but she did what she had to do, for the greater good.
Yeah…Gawyn didn’t exactly turn out to be one of my favorite characters. I liked him till bought book 3, but I just couldn’t forgive him for the part he played in the splitting of the tower. It just seemed so out of character. I never considered that he might be under compulsion, but it’s possible. Mesaana is stationed in the tower, and who knows how long she’s been there, or what she’s been doing. We’ve seen a sceen or two from his POV, and nothing seemed to be wrong with him. Maybe it’s a subtle compulsion, something like what Varen did to the sisters in the Aiel camp.
Virginia, I really like your idea of Galad and Birgitte! Wouldn’t it be interesting for her to go from ending up with the ugliest man, to one of the most hansome? Everything is changing, and Birgitte is changing. She’s got her memories of previous lives for one, something that’s never happened. Galad might help her find happiness while Gadal isn’t around. I find them as interesting as Mat/Nynaeve! For some reason, they fascinate me. They’d have a relationship very similar to that of Rand and Aviendha.
Is it possible to get rid of the game of houses? If anyone can do it, Galad can. He’d definitely confuse them, until they figure out that he means exactly what he says. I think he’ll be hard to monipulate, and they’d have to give up trying eventually.
The only thing I see against Galad and Birgitte hooking up is that when they were together during the fight from the menagererie to the boat, there were no sparks evident. But then, they were a little busy… Maybe when they meet again!
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for it! If not, there’s always our imaginations and fanfiction. Who ever Galad ends up with, she’s a lucky woman. I hope Birgitte will get a happy ending, even if it’s not with our resident Whitecloak.
I just want to say this again, but GAYDAL CAIN! He is reborn, but who? I know the answer. He is young, ugly, and fond of horses. His name R.J.’s midel name! Oliver!!! Tel’al’reiod has a different time line! He has a unatral want for a true love, with the apsence of Bergette! R.J. wrote every thing for a reson, including the reberth of Gaydal Cain!
I doun’t spell good, sorry.
Sorry Sherman, (Sherman, Sherman, Sherman, hands clapping) but RJ has specifically said much the same as with Taim/Demandred, fans came to the wrong conclusion on that one. I supported that theory myself till I saw the quote, wish I had the link but I’m not one for digging. Olver is not Gaidal Cain.
Im sure somebody (Andrew where are you) will come in here and back me up on this one.
I raised the topic of family relations back in 2006 on this board as well as with Jayson via emails. I thought the brother/half brother, aunt/uncle as well as other aspects concerned to be important. Moiraine is aunt to Galad but not to Rand though they are half brothers. Tigraine’s brother, Luc/Isam/Slayer, is uncle to both. Luc killed Janduin, Rand’s father. Isam is Lan Mandragoran’s cousin. Does that relate Rand and Galad to Lan?
This all winds itself around a bit, correct? I understand the part of Tigraine going to the blight to save the world but Luc’s part in the same regard makes no sense as he is assimilated into two evils that are a roadblock thus far. Go back and read about those characters and what they do. I find it very interesting.
The aspect of Galad on the Sun throne made a lot of sense. Who else has claim other than Moiraine?
She surely has no want of the position unless the Finns set that before her. Gawyn might have some claim but is not as strong as Galad or Elayne as far as leadership qualities from what has been presented so far. He is more warder than king or queen. Galad would stop the petty game of houses and the Children of the Light could be headquartered in Cairhein – who knows?
The Blademaster conversation should have led to Tam and his heron sword that Rand had. Lan had one as well as do most true Blademasters. Those swords marked one as a Blademaster. Tam was one and Lan trained Rand as often as possible though Rand moved beyond that using his flame sword.
How did Mat defeat both Galad and Gawyn with a staff? His memories were kicking in big time at that point as that was a demonstration of skills he hadn’t exhibited yet. We don’t know whose memories are his compass but they must be those of a heavy player.
Galad with Berlain or Birgitte? Wow.
The mention of all factions, especially the Children of the light, coming together to fight the Dark side begs me to remind everyone of the title of the last book. How does that title play into the final outcome of how all will get along in the future? What new political alliances will be wrought? What is a Memory of Light?
Things that make me go “Hmmmm”.
No, I don’t believe Lan had a Heron marked sword. I’m re-reading the series now, and I remember Rand saying Lan’s sword looked identical to his, with the exception of the Herons. They’re both power wrought though. If I remember correctly, it’s one of the things his parents left him, but he’s definitely a blademaster, regardless of whether his sword has herons or not.
I thought his sword was the same but I haven’t read the book in a few years.
Regardless, Lan is probably The blademaster from what we have seen so far. He saved Moiraine’s ass from everything but falling through the door frame and would have if he could.
Hi guys! Big fan of the podcast and new DM member (MatsLuck), first time posting here, Just wanted to say hi, thank you, you guys do a great job, and if you’re ever looking for new podcasters please let me know! I didn’t actually get to hear this episode that thoroughly yet (I listen at work) but I’ll be replaying it soon I’m sure. I’ve gone through every episode almost twice now
What I will say briefly is I’ve always liked Galad and Gawyn both. I think Galad gets kind of a bum rap, but he is a good guy. And I really hope he learns Rand is his half brother and they are united at some point. I think they both could use that sense of family. As for Gawyn, well I hope he figures out that he’s been wrong. I must say it seems a little out of character from the Gawyn we first meet for him to get so consumed by hate for Rand. Egwene has told him it wasn’t Rand and that Elayne loves him. He’s old enough to know that rumor is hardly fact. Perhaps the upheaval in the tower, combined with grief for his mother, AND the lack of his older bro being present as a steadying force have just unhinged the poor guy. I hope he finds his way back, because in his present condition I could see him doing something very misguided in the future. What I’m interested to see (hopefully in tGS) is what he does when he finds out Egwene is in the tower. Thanks again for all the hours of entertainment guys.
Virginia,
By today’s definition of “hookup”…
I don’t think Galad is the hookup type though Birgitte probably is. He is pretty much an ethical fellow – he fought for his stepmother’s honor.
Mat=hookup.
Rand – he doesn’t do the one night stand deal.
Perrin – Huckleberry is whipped and isn’t the hookup type.
These characters have more character than most people we know.
Well said Mike…That’s why Mat’s my fave and Perrin my least. Always kinda liked Berelain too…
To some of the above…
Lan’s sword is power-wrought, but not Heron-marked. Mentioned clearly in tEoTW.
As for Hookup types… I liked that comment.. nice.
A.
Yeah, I haven’t read the books in a long time – too many other things going on – rebuilding my John Deere mower and other projects. At the end of the day I’m too pooped to read and will fall asleep.
I did watch all three Lord of the Rings DVDs this weekend – extended versions. I forgot how much I liked that trilogy of films. Peter Jackson did a fairly decent job of putting the story to film – it could have been four to fill some holes that were missing. Tom Bombadil and the cleansing of the Shire being most prevalent.
TLoTR was the first fantasy writing I came across and I know it well. The movie didn’t let me down and I always wanted for a film version.
WOT will be impossible to put to film. How many movies would it take to cover the first book? IMO, that book had more action in it’s pages than any of the others. Some of the books in the middle were almost Victorian in the sense they involved women in Lifetime TV situations – that might be easy but the sheer amount of hours to just scratch the surface dictates it will have to be done as a weekly TV series along the lines of The Legend of the Seeker. That show is OK at best but the story line is weak a lot of the time.
If the Simpsons can run on for 20 years WOT can go for 10, correct?
I haven’t listened to a podcast in a while but when I saw the topic on this week I was so excited! Gawyn is one of my favorite characters.
I think that Gawyn’s actions during the coup may have seemed out of character, but if you think about it they do make sense. Gawyn has always had Galad as an example of how to act and has always tried to live up to him. And Galad always does the right thing and follows the rules. So when all hell breaks loose in the tower and Gawyn doesn’t know what to do, he follows the only thing he has left and that is the law. Legally, Elida is right and therefore he supports her. He thinks (as in he is uncertain) what he is doing is right and so he wavers when he sees Min. A friend whom he trust helping Suin.
I think that Gawyn always tries to do the right think but sees the gray area more than Galad does and is therefore more conflicted.
I also agree that Gawyn and Egwene are perfect for each other and I can’t wait to see there interactions with each other in the next book. It’s going to be intense Gawyn is really about to be torn but I feel confident he will side with Egwene (though I don’t think he will do it because it is the right thing to do but because he is in love with her.)
I never hated Galad, but I never like him either. He is too much of a legalist, just doing what is right because it is right. He has a lot to learn about the world, that there is more than just right and wrong. And until he learns this lesson there is no way he should be King. I honestly think he would do a really bad job unless he changes a lot in the last book.
Saying that I never really like Berlin, especially because of her pursuit of Perrin I don’t think that is something that should be laughed off or forgotten. I may not love Galad but I think he deserves better than her.
Yes Josh, Mat is the best! I don’t think I’ve ever met a Mat hater. Out of the three, Perrin is my least favorite. Probably because he’s got a one track mind, and he lets himself get pushed around by his wife.
Berelain is wonderful too! Smart, resorceful, beautiful, independant, and so much more. I think Galad would be lucky to have her. She’s not a lightskirt like Helima. She may dress like one, but she clearly tell’s Perrin in one of the later books that she’s had only…2 lovers. She dresses the way she does because it distracts people. They underestimate her inteligence, kind of like Graendal. Berelain is the queen of a small nation that bigger countries have been trying to take over for many years. Beauty is just another weapon, and Berelain is using it to her advantage. With her beside him, Galad might be able to manage the Sun Throne.
Mat’s been my fave since the first time he peeked around the wagon to tug Rand’s sleeve. Just like me, a prankster, little bit underachiever/slacker, but he always rises to the occasion. And despite being pictured as irresponsible, he is ALWAYS doing things he’d rather not for his friends, not for himself. So if he wants to have fun in the taverns in his down time, good for him!
I do think Galad has changed some though. When we first meet him Elayne makes some remark about how when you screw up, he’s not mad, he’s disappointed you didn’t meet his standards. Well, he’s been around a bit now, and I think he’s seen that even the whitecloaks are a disappointment. I think he’s coming to the realization that people aren’t perfect, and that’s ok. I mean, he certainly didn’t turn his sister and Nynaeve in when he could have.
And Berelain is great. People see her “game” with Faile as petty, and it is, but she knows when to be serious. And what is funny to me is that Faile gives Perrin crap about not responding to Berelain’s advances, but the first time she saw her go after him, she came after her with a knife! Seems its ok for HER to react to it. And it’s important to remember that after she disarmed and judo-threw her (LOVE that), when Faile was getting ready for round two, Berelain specifically tucked the knife away or held it in some way that it was clear she was not going to use it. That’s not petty. That’s disciplined and mature.
I enjoy the perils with women the three boys encounter.
Something I have noticed under the surface of the Perrin trap is Faile isn’t bent out of shape with killing rage when alone with Berelain. I think she would actually like to be friends with her and is on some terms. She knows Berelain is beautiful and like most women hates her for it. Mix that with her ability to turn Huckleberry’s head with a bit-o-cleavage and she goes into Prozacland. She is actually obsessed with Berelain which comes through quite often. Berelain isn’t petty enough to lock horns with the crazed redneck girl from up north. She is royalty and probably saw Perrin as a distraction from the chaos going on around them and nothing more. If she really wanted him she would had have him on a leash from the start. She has basically given up on teasing the clodhopper as his sole purpose in life is to kiss the ass of the only woman he has ever been close to, Faile.
Rand was unofficially betrothed to Egwene before Moirane took them from the Two Rivers. I always got a kick from his retort “Light, Egwene!”. He lost his mind after meeting Elayne, can you blame him? A gorgeous young redhead, who happens to be a princess, takes the bumpkin in like a stray pup and shows him some kindness. I always liked the character of Aviendha and she was his first as far as I know. Min is his senior and oversees the sheepherder’s needs be they social or sexual. Elayne was the last one to lay one on him, but good.
Who knows what Mat’s true story is concerning the girls back home? He surely has no problem with picking up women after hitting the road. He even has a farmer’s daughter story. Had to get practice somewhere. He has his life set before him now with Tuon.
All three constantly comment that the others know more about women that they. That was one of the best running jokes along the way.
the only thing i disagree with is that mat and perrin have truces with the seanchan. mat is most certainly tied to them but he says outright to tuon that they will continue to fight each others respective peoples. In regards to perrin, he agreed not raise manetheren (which would include seanchan held land) in his agreement with banner general tylee. However, after the the shaido had been defeated he also told tylee that the seanchan could not have ghealdan, as it was the realm of alliandre, who is sworn to him.
so, it appears that rand is the only one of the three seeking a complete truce. then again, at the end of book 11 he is setting the pieces that will crush the seanchan should they refuse his terms. and tuon doesnt strike me as one to believe that the prophecies require the crystal thrown to bow to the Dragon reborn. She, like all seanchan, are extremely ignorant and unyielding in there beliefs.
Why don’t you guys checkout Seamasskeches.com for THE BEST Wheel of Time art. He has a profile on Dragonmont to. Lord_of_chaos_jr. He is part of the WoT comics. He is awsom like that.
Why don’t you guys checkout Seamasskeches.com for THE BEST Wheel of Time art. He has a profile on Dragonmont to. Lord_of_chaos_jr. He is part of the WoT comics. He is awsom like that.
ps. 4th age should dovte a episode to art.
sorry for the double post.
snore.
Berelain is the type of woman that always gets her way, and she seems most attracted to men that resist her feminine charms and wiles, like Rand, and Rhuarc, and Perrin. Now Galad is too Noble to ever be seduced by someone like Berelain, he might even dislike her if he ever met her, and this would just attract Berelain even more.
I also think Galad will take the sunthrone because if he does take it, then Elayne will have to deal with her brother as an equal and one on one. The whole book she has been saying how much she hates him, i think it would be a Jordan-esque twist of events if she would finally have to make peace, and maybe even see that he is a good man. it would also be appropriate because then Galad would have to try to unite the Whitecloaks to fight alongside a Country ruled by an Aes Sedai. I think we might finally get rid of Dain.
I wonder if Rand and Galad being brothers will ever come out into the open, or if it’s just meant for the reader to have an inside joke.
Nels,
I doubt it would be meant to be an inside joke. These characters are all going to align in some fashion and my guess is the familial tie is going to be a strong point. Look at one of my posts above and how the main players are related. The fact that Rand is son of a Spear Maiden – Tigraine – as well as the prophesied “He who comes with the sun” ties the Aiel into it heavily.
I can’t wait.
Actually, it’s “He Who Comes With The Dawn”.
Hey, I used the wrong word.
I feel like a podcaster being chastised for the mispronunciation of certain names though we all know what was meant.
They use the wrong names or words at times too.
My intention wasn’t to chastise, only to remind you of the proper term for next time. No afense was meant. But I know that if I’d gotten it wrong, I’d appreciate it being pointed out politely, of course.
This is going to be pesky, but I was wondering about future podcasts. I saw on Leigh’s blog that she recorded one with you guys this week and mentioned that it would be out soon. I know you guys are backlogged at the editing stage (wish I could help out, but I have no idea how- I have iDVD and garageband, but somehow I don’t think those would be helpful!)
I thought I remembered some sort of loose schedule somewhere about the order of topics to be discussed (so readers could call/write in with comments). Do you guys have any sort of loose schedule on the order of releases? By this I don’t mean specific dates (I know you guys do all of this in your spare time!) but rather just something like podcast on Nyneave is next, pod cast with Leigh will be after, etc. Or if you have no idea on the release order can you tell us what topics you have recorded/ are going to record?
thanks for the great work- I really enjoy the podcasts!
KamarileSedai,
Just kidding , no offense taken.
I was being playful as the podcasts have come to a stall and I wanted to bump the thread along.
If you have read these podcast pages enough times over the past few years you will have seen how these folks are goaded about pronunciation.
Carrie used to call the Dark One the Dark Lord all the time.
I’m relieved to know you were kidding, Mike. I’ve listened to many of the podcasts before, but I haven’t been looking through, or posting in the comment sections for very long. Actually, I started to around the time the podcasts for the Chosen (Forsaken) were being posted.
I’m one who tends to try gently correcting people’s mistakes sometimes, and I know some people do get angry.
What’s wrong with calling the DarkOne the Great Lord? He is! At least to me, he is. She must be a darkfriend, that’s all.
Yah, I have been into this since they began. If you look way back to 2006 you will see my name in the comments.
Carrie a darkfriend? Nah, I don’t think so. LOL!
carrie, is that you with the bell-chime voice and the bronze gown?
Yeah Mike, I’ve been right there with you.
Is there going to be a new podcasts anytime soon guys? It’s been awhile.
There should be another episode coming out very shortly. I know the wait between episodes can drag on but it shouldn’t be too much longer. Hopefully it gets released before the Longing takes you
Ray,
There have been very few of us who have hung around. I remember when they had the contest for the theme tune. I wanted to submit one but never got around to recording it in time.
I started reading the series this week for the nth time so I can be fully up to date when the new book hits the stands this fall.(maybe) I am 2/3 through EoTW and find it funny when reading the book after reading some of the stuff on the comment pages. Anyone who does so will have to agree. I have forgotten more than I remember about the series.
I am in the middle of chapter 33 and will get into Caemlyn tonight.
I remember that Mike, that was right around the time Ben first joined the team wasn’t it? I used to love his crazy theory part of the show.
I’m about ready for a re-read myself, my copy of the Eye of the World is out on a loan right now though, trying to hook people as always.
Cool, new podcast today.
I liked many elements of the podcast, but I thought some of the analysis was way too soft on the whitecloaks. It’s great that Galad will have a chance to potentially redeem them somewhat through the utility of their arms, if nothing else, but let’s face it, as an organisation they are completely covered in evil.
One of the podcasters kept making the point that they occasionally showed a modicum of decency, and weren’t darkfriends, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t overwhelmingly tainted with amorality and outright evil. You don’t have to be for the shadow to be evil, as Mordeth and Shadar Logoth well demonstrate.
Think about it. They have a whole separate division, the Hand of the Light, who are little more than glorified torturers, who are legally unaccountable to the core military institution below the Lord Captain, who is also forced by political necessity to treat them with kid gloves. Moreover, their rank and file is overwhelmingly filled with callow, prejudiced thugs who go around bullying and intimidating townsfolk, when they aren’t doing worse things like . They would try to kill innocent Aes Sedai on sight if they could get away with it. Even the supposed softer cuddly ones like Geofram Bornhald indulge their thug underling to routinely engage in torture.
So really, I think all this talk of them wanting to do what is right, and just being a little misguided, is really excusing some completely abhorrent behaviour. The truth is much harsher – they are a mostly evil organisation who happens to have a standing army that might prove useful in the Last Battle from a tactical point of view. That Galad finds in their principles some kind of ethical code doesn’t mean they’re any better than they really are in practice. It would be like joining the KKK because you found a Klan document that wasn’t covered in racial prejudice. Galad’s ability to reform the organisation looks plausible now that he is LCC but that was far from assured when he joined.
Wolfie,
My thoughts as to why Galad was drawn to the Children was the initial sense of right and wrong he garnered from reading their history and original creedo. Remember that Galad will only do what he feels is right and just even if it is in the wrong for the common good. His view of the world is black and white for the time being. I think he has learned of the leadership of the Whitecloaks and we will see how that changed him in the future – he is the leader now, correct?
If you look at the original Constitution of the USA and realize what is going on behind the curtain you soon realize the original plan has been averted which means our leaders have run astray. The USA is a far greater entity than the Whitecloaks but, in either case, individual agendas can make the vehicle jump tracks.
As far as all of the Whitecloaks being darkfriends, I don’t think so. I think there are many overzealous individuals – much like our own soldiers or police officers – high on power and brainwashed to the point they wear blinders as a horse might. This takes away one’s peripheral viewpoint and forces one to look at one thing only – the objective have been trained for with no option of seeing anything other. The Children are conditioned to think black and white – right or wrong. This causes individuals to exhibit behavior not readily tolerable by the general public. That fact exists in our own world as does in WoT.
We know there are darkfriends within the Whitecloaks but the fact some of the rank and file are overbearing due to their training does not make them all such. They are disciplined when not behaving harshly. I don’t like their Nazi attitude or presence but the alliance I anticipate between Rand and Galad – after Morgase surfaces with Perrin’s arrival on the scene – will either break the Children or shake their very beliefs. At least Galad’s.
One can only hope.
Ray,
That and the complaints about Carrie’s voice and everyone’s vocal levels.
I think everyone commenting had crazy theories to challenge those of Ben’s.
Almost time to start TGH.
hey guys… what tv show you like the most ? my favorite so far was OZ