Episode 49 – The Forsaken Revisited, Part 2

The Forsaken Revisited, Part 2. Please join Andrew, Virginia and Jessie as they continue their new discussion of the inimitable villains of the Wheel of Time, the thirteen Forsaken, or as they prefer to call themselves, the Chosen.

Part 2 covers Lanfear, Rahvin, Moghedien and Mesaana.

As always, we go into all the books of the Wheel of Time series, from New Spring through Knife of Dreams, so if you haven’t finished your first read-through, you may want to come back to these podcasts when you have, as THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Part 1 covered Aginor, Be’lal, Ishamael, Balthamel, Asmodean and Graendal.

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14 Responses to Episode 49 – The Forsaken Revisited, Part 2

  1. Matt says:

    wow that was quick – cheers

  2. Virginia says:

    We have many episodes recorded – it’s the editing that is the bottleneck. Thanks David K for the fast work on these Forsaken ones!

  3. Charlz Guybon says:

    The white book came out after A Crown of Swords

  4. Charlz Guybon says:

    Rahvin’s balefire death is odd because Rand used so much. Rand used a bar as thick as a man on Rahvin, while he only tiny amounts on his other victims.

  5. Charlz Guybon says:

    Messana is a the prototypical Hitler Youth leader; one who has the Nazi’s said, reaches for her gun when she hears the word culture. An avid book burner, she wants to destroy all worldly knowledge and civilization itself.

    Many of those novices in the tower that Elaida’s so proud of (100 is the most the Tower’s had in a long time) have likely been corrupted by her, including Nicola.

    Also Moghedien shows up to the meeting chapter 3 of KoD. Wouldn’t it be interesting if she really was no longer fearful.

  6. Virginia says:

    But at least the HORDES of novices that are with Egwene’s Aes Sedai haven’t been corrupted by Mesaana, though I do often wonder if Mesaana doesn’t make side trips to the rebel camp herself.

    Do you really think Nicola has been corrupted or turned, Charlz? She seems to have turned over a new leaf with regard to Egwene. But then, perhaps those are her orders! It seems to me that Min had a viewing regarding Nicola, but now I can’t recall for sure. I’ll have to search it out, unless someone here has it to hand.

    Moghedien not fearful – that’s a scary thought. But how easily will she be able to turn around the habits of a lifetime?

    I don’t get the book burner thing from Mesaana as much as a desire to destroy ay work done by those who called her “not suited for research”. I think it’s a revenge thing rather than a hatred of culture in general.

  7. Charlz Guybon says:

    One of Nicola’s flaws, is that like Egwene she wants to advance faster than her teachers think prudent. I think that she would be easy to tempt with secret lessons, and before she’s knows what’s happened she’s in to deep to get out.

  8. Xar_81 says:

    Thanks for the new episode guy’s. Enjoyed it as usual. Will it become available in I-Tunes soon?

    GreetZ Xar

  9. Virginia says:

    You may be right about Nicola, Charlz. Even I might be tempted thus!

  10. Virginia says:

    I’ve let the admins know about the podcast not making it on to iTunes. Thanks for the heads up Xar!


  11. Ray says:

    Great podcast as usual!
    I did want to comment on Demandred and Taim for a moment, if I may.
    I really liked the theory that Demandred is behind Taim’s training and influence. If you really think on it, that fits the puzzle perfectly. RJ said Taim is not Demandred, even though 95% of us had that thought in our head. Taim somehow escaped Aes Sedai on route to Tar Valon, he has uncanny knowledge of the one power somehow, and he shares many of Demandred’s feelings on Rand.
    Originally I was thinking that a 13/13 took place with Taim, but I don’t think it was even needed, Demandred probably just turned him to the Dark One with promises of power.
    What do you all think?

  12. Mashiara says:

    In regards to the dream Perrin had of Lanfear, where she offered him glory… I always thought it was just Rand’s dream imprinted on Perrin since Rand hadn’t learned to shield his dreams yet. All the Shinerians saw parts of the dreams Rand had (Callandor and the Stone and such), but Perrin, being another ta’varen, would be more likely to be caught up in them, even more so than the others. I think Lanfear sought out Mat in the White Tower because she was there on other busniess so decided to see him. I don’t think she’s had any reason to seek out Perrin yet, exspecially since he might be the easiest to manipulate; there’s no point in messing with him till it’s necissary.

    I can definitly see Nicola becoming a darkfriend, or even a dreadlord since she’s powerful enought. It seems to me that those who are ambitious (or greedy) are the easiest to turn over to the dark side.

    Since Taim isn’t Demandred, he has to be a pupil of Demandred. The simple fact that he said “Let the lord of chaos rule” at the end of KoD, a direct quote from Demandred, should be enough evidence. I’m hoping he would have been turned by the 13/13 since it has been hinted at so much, it’ll be a shame to not see it first hand.

  13. mike says:

    Something about Nicola’s desire to advance versus Egwene is that Egwene was groomed a bit before she really got into that mode. I think she is most likely far more natural in the power rather than forcing it. If Nicola is being corrupted she will likely expose herself more than she has already. We already know where Egwene’s head is at – maybe. Who know what the future holds?

    The fact that those that are power hungry are easiest to turn has proven to be true.
    The same holds true in real life, think from a politician’s POV.

  14. Kamarile Sedai says:

    Hm, I’ve never considered the idea that Lanfear might be a bit mad. It’s definitely possible. I could see how drilling the bore and surviving, or going to Tel’aran’rhiod in the flesh could do it. But when it comes to Tel’aran’rhiod, you’d think she’d no better than to do that. She is said to know a great deal about the place and how it works.
    Although she didn’t stake a claim to a country like some of the others, that’s because she has a much bigger goal. If she gets Rand and convinces him to work with her, then she can eventually rule the entire world. Who needs to rule one or two countries when you can overthrow the creator and the DarkOne?

    Moghedien, not scared? That’s scary! What kind of person would she become? If fear didn’t stop her, she might come to preside above the rest of the Chosen.
    In a way, you really have to admire her bravery. She’ scared of almost everything and everyone at such a high degree, yet she almost never shows signs of it. What do you suppose made her such a fearful person? Was she always that way, or was it something that happened later?
    Like you guys said, it is quite ironic that being the spider, she’s the one we see most of. I really can’t bring myself to dislike her.

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